From karen_g38 at hotmail.com  Tue Nov  1 01:58:16 2005
From: karen_g38 at hotmail.com (Karen G.)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 20:58:16 -0500
Subject: [Vegmisc] Milk question
In-Reply-To: <20051031154004.56685.qmail@web52714.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BAY107-F34217D379A507F99DE678F8F6F0@phx.gbl>

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From v at vaalea.com  Tue Nov  1 02:52:20 2005
From: v at vaalea.com (vaalea)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 21:52:20 -0500
Subject: [Vegmisc] (Again) Important Mailing List Information.
References: <BAY107-F34217D379A507F99DE678F8F6F0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <1dc301c5de92$9bb81090$6500a8c0@v>

Yes, this Vegmisc mailing list is to encourage more interaction amongst vegn members between meetups. I wish people to feel comfortable sending off just a sentence or few to this list telling everyone that there is a sale at this store, or a new vegn product they tried, recipe etc. Usually I tried to wait until I have a list of things to say before I would post to the Veg-ns mailing list.... and sometimes I would forget.... and it was especially not nice because people had to rely on me to pass on information and I didn't always post them on time... if I remembered to. This mailing list is also to help keep the Veg-ns mailing list posts to a bare minimum... just about OttawaVeg events.

The only time a person should reply to the author only and not to the group is if it is a private message, or one they don't think the group needs to hear. In the case of the notmilk website, there are others besides me who were/are also interested. I don't want to keep the mailing list as single private conversations between me and each individual member, I want it to be group conversations where everyone can contribute and benefit.

Now, if everyone starts emailing this list on a regular basis, it WILL generate a lot of email to your inbox.. however, there are a few ways to combat this:
1. You can go to http://lists.ottawaveg.com/mailman/listinfo/vegmisc and select to receive digests only. The mailing list will combine emails before sending them to you. You should get a digest about once a week. [I'm still working things out a little.. if you have problems with the digest, let me know] 
2. If you use Outlook Express or some program like that, you can have the mail sort into it's own folder automatically when you receive it. Then you can look it over at your leisure without it being mixed up with your regular mail. [in Outlook it is "Tools" "Message rules" "mail" "new" check "where the subject line contains specific words" check "move it to the specified folder" then click on the blue "specific words" and put in 'Vegmisc', and click on the blue "specified folder" and choose or create a new folder to put it in.] 
3. You can remove yourself from the mailing list, and then go here to view posts to the mailing list (if you remember) http://lists.ottawaveg.com/pipermail/vegmisc/

Another note, to help people who view the mailing list archives, please make your subject line as descriptive as possible if you are starting a new topic (and not just replying to someone else's topic).

I think that is all.... for now.... 



  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Karen G. 
  To: vegmisc at ottawaveg.com 
  Sent: Monday, October 31, 2005 8:58 PM
  Subject: Re: [Vegmisc] Milk question


  I think answering questions/sharing information pertaining to miscellaneous subjects of possible interest to veg*ns is appropriate.  Actually, I'm under the impression that that's what the point of this mailing list is, no?  Maybe it's just me?

  :)




----------------------------------------------------------------------------

    From:  K <pekieca at yahoo.com>
    Reply-To:  vegmisc at ottawaveg.com
    To:  vegmisc at ottawaveg.com
    Subject:  Re: [Vegmisc] Milk question
    Date:  Mon, 31 Oct 2005 10:40:04 -0500 (EST)



    should answers to vaalea's emails be sent strictly to Vallea or the entire list?  If to the list, I can foresee a lot of emails being sent.

    "Karen G." <karen_g38 at hotmail.com> wrote: 
      Hi, Vaalea!  Just wondering if you tried www.notmilk.com for your milk question?

      Karen



      _______________________________________________
      Vegmisc mailing list
      Vegmisc at ottawaveg.com
      http://lists.ottawaveg.com/mailman/listinfo/vegmisc



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    >_______________________________________________
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    >Vegmisc at ottawaveg.com
    >http://lists.ottawaveg.com/mailman/listinfo/vegmisc





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From v at vaalea.com  Tue Nov  1 04:47:20 2005
From: v at vaalea.com (vaalea)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 23:47:20 -0500
Subject: [Vegmisc] Milk question
References: <BAY107-F21E26C894D719070FB76EF8F6C0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <1efe01c5de9f$59ef52b0$6500a8c0@v>

http://greaterthings.com/Editorial/puberty_meat.htm and http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/notmilk/message/1797
say some interesting things
flax is supposed to be another thing high in (phyto)estrogen (but you never hear complaints about that)
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/notmilk/message/1967 again breaks down how phytoestrogen is different than estrogen.

However, while notmilk.com has some interesting material... I am most interested in anything coming from a "nonbias" source.... and preferably some science research or medical website that just is dealing with numbers.

If people were to say to me "I drink dairy because of the estrogen in soymilk"... then before even getting into the differences of estrogen and phytoestrogen, I would love to be able to say something like "Actually dairy milk contains twice as much estrogen". (If that were the truth). It's a lot easier for people to understand that there is more estrogen in dairy than soy (if there is)... then to understand that there is a difference between the types of estrogen that each contain... 

you know?? =0)

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Karen G. 
  To: vegmisc at ottawaveg.com 
  Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2005 10:01 PM
  Subject: [Vegmisc] Milk question


  Hi, Vaalea!  Just wondering if you tried www.notmilk.com for your milk question?

  Karen





------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  Vegmisc mailing list
  Vegmisc at ottawaveg.com
  http://lists.ottawaveg.com/mailman/listinfo/vegmisc
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From vc_biohazard at hotmail.com  Wed Nov  2 19:48:01 2005
From: vc_biohazard at hotmail.com (Val C)
Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2005 19:48:01 +0000
Subject: [Vegmisc] Milk question
In-Reply-To: <1efe01c5de9f$59ef52b0$6500a8c0@v>
Message-ID: <BAY103-F16FE2F64132800E917D9ECE56E0@phx.gbl>

Hi!
I found these that will probably interest you.  The first paper is a bit 
brutal but the last two paragraphs are interesting.
Please bear in mind that these are hypotheses at this point and it only 
becomes close to the truth after many many years and numerous studies.  No 
one study can or should be taken for the absolute truth.

One important thing about soy phytoestrogens is that they ARE NOT 
ESTROGEN!!!
"Natural product" people never understand that distinction.  I won't go into 
the agonist/antagonist terminology but what it does is actually LOWER the 
amount of estrogen produced by the body.  I really hate it when guys start 
thinking they'll grow boobs if they drink soymilk!!  It doesn't work that 
way!  If they start saying that kind of crap, tell them to take a bloody 
12th grade bio class.

This is also an interesting article somewhat related by the bbc news that 
stresses (from a 3rd party, medical source) that the effects of 
phytoestrogens on the body are very weak:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/health/ask_the_doctor/phytoestrogens.shtml

There's a lot more research out there but it's often old, foreign or from 
biased sources.

Cheers!
Valerie

PS:  One of our carnivore friends just found out that her newborn baby is 
allergic to casein.  She's wondering what she can do for cheese, parmesan, 
etc.  Any recommendations?
Thanks






Harley Quinn: Sweetie, get mommy's bazooka.





>From: "vaalea" <v at vaalea.com>
>Reply-To: vegmisc at ottawaveg.com
>To: <vegmisc at ottawaveg.com>
>Subject: Re: [Vegmisc] Milk question
>Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 23:47:20 -0500
>
>http://greaterthings.com/Editorial/puberty_meat.htm and 
>http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/notmilk/message/1797
>say some interesting things
>flax is supposed to be another thing high in (phyto)estrogen (but you never 
>hear complaints about that)
>http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/notmilk/message/1967 again breaks down 
>how phytoestrogen is different than estrogen.
>
>However, while notmilk.com has some interesting material... I am most 
>interested in anything coming from a "nonbias" source.... and preferably 
>some science research or medical website that just is dealing with numbers.
>
>If people were to say to me "I drink dairy because of the estrogen in 
>soymilk"... then before even getting into the differences of estrogen and 
>phytoestrogen, I would love to be able to say something like "Actually 
>dairy milk contains twice as much estrogen". (If that were the truth). It's 
>a lot easier for people to understand that there is more estrogen in dairy 
>than soy (if there is)... then to understand that there is a difference 
>between the types of estrogen that each contain...
>
>you know?? =0)
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Karen G.
>   To: vegmisc at ottawaveg.com
>   Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2005 10:01 PM
>   Subject: [Vegmisc] Milk question
>
>
>   Hi, Vaalea!  Just wondering if you tried www.notmilk.com for your milk 
>question?
>
>   Karen
>
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>   _______________________________________________
>   Vegmisc mailing list
>   Vegmisc at ottawaveg.com
>   http://lists.ottawaveg.com/mailman/listinfo/vegmisc


>_______________________________________________
>Vegmisc mailing list
>Vegmisc at ottawaveg.com
>http://lists.ottawaveg.com/mailman/listinfo/vegmisc




From vc_biohazard at hotmail.com  Wed Nov  2 19:49:09 2005
From: vc_biohazard at hotmail.com (Val C)
Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2005 19:49:09 +0000
Subject: [Vegmisc] attachments!
Message-ID: <BAY103-F1206D5D70DAC452F4ED1D2E56E0@phx.gbl>

Sorry, I forgot to add the attachments!

Cheers




>From: "vaalea" <v at vaalea.com>
>Reply-To: vegmisc at ottawaveg.com
>To: <vegmisc at ottawaveg.com>
>Subject: Re: [Vegmisc] Milk question
>Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 23:47:20 -0500
>
>http://greaterthings.com/Editorial/puberty_meat.htm and 
>http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/notmilk/message/1797
>say some interesting things
>flax is supposed to be another thing high in (phyto)estrogen (but you never 
>hear complaints about that)
>http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/notmilk/message/1967 again breaks down 
>how phytoestrogen is different than estrogen.
>
>However, while notmilk.com has some interesting material... I am most 
>interested in anything coming from a "nonbias" source.... and preferably 
>some science research or medical website that just is dealing with numbers.
>
>If people were to say to me "I drink dairy because of the estrogen in 
>soymilk"... then before even getting into the differences of estrogen and 
>phytoestrogen, I would love to be able to say something like "Actually 
>dairy milk contains twice as much estrogen". (If that were the truth). It's 
>a lot easier for people to understand that there is more estrogen in dairy 
>than soy (if there is)... then to understand that there is a difference 
>between the types of estrogen that each contain...
>
>you know?? =0)
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Karen G.
>   To: vegmisc at ottawaveg.com
>   Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2005 10:01 PM
>   Subject: [Vegmisc] Milk question
>
>
>   Hi, Vaalea!  Just wondering if you tried www.notmilk.com for your milk 
>question?
>
>   Karen
>
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>   _______________________________________________
>   Vegmisc mailing list
>   Vegmisc at ottawaveg.com
>   http://lists.ottawaveg.com/mailman/listinfo/vegmisc


>_______________________________________________
>Vegmisc mailing list
>Vegmisc at ottawaveg.com
>http://lists.ottawaveg.com/mailman/listinfo/vegmisc

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From mjpatry at yahoo.com  Wed Nov  2 21:50:51 2005
From: mjpatry at yahoo.com (Marie-Josée Patry)
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 13:50:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Vegmisc] attachments!
In-Reply-To: <BAY103-F1206D5D70DAC452F4ED1D2E56E0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <20051102215051.76575.qmail@web32804.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

http://www.vegfamily.com/health/vegan-soy-information.htm

This is the best article on soy called:
"Being Vegan and Eating Soy: Myths, Truths, and
Everything in Between"



--- Val C <vc_biohazard at hotmail.com> wrote:

> Sorry, I forgot to add the attachments!
> 
> Cheers
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >From: "vaalea" <v at vaalea.com>
> >Reply-To: vegmisc at ottawaveg.com
> >To: <vegmisc at ottawaveg.com>
> >Subject: Re: [Vegmisc] Milk question
> >Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 23:47:20 -0500
> >
> >http://greaterthings.com/Editorial/puberty_meat.htm
> and 
>
>http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/notmilk/message/1797
> >say some interesting things
> >flax is supposed to be another thing high in
> (phyto)estrogen (but you never 
> >hear complaints about that)
>
>http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/notmilk/message/1967
> again breaks down 
> >how phytoestrogen is different than estrogen.
> >
> >However, while notmilk.com has some interesting
> material... I am most 
> >interested in anything coming from a "nonbias"
> source.... and preferably 
> >some science research or medical website that just
> is dealing with numbers.
> >
> >If people were to say to me "I drink dairy because
> of the estrogen in 
> >soymilk"... then before even getting into the
> differences of estrogen and 
> >phytoestrogen, I would love to be able to say
> something like "Actually 
> >dairy milk contains twice as much estrogen". (If
> that were the truth). It's 
> >a lot easier for people to understand that there is
> more estrogen in dairy 
> >than soy (if there is)... then to understand that
> there is a difference 
> >between the types of estrogen that each contain...
> >
> >you know?? =0)
> >
> >   ----- Original Message -----
> >   From: Karen G.
> >   To: vegmisc at ottawaveg.com
> >   Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2005 10:01 PM
> >   Subject: [Vegmisc] Milk question
> >
> >
> >   Hi, Vaalea!  Just wondering if you tried
> www.notmilk.com for your milk 
> >question?
> >
> >   Karen
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> >   _______________________________________________
> >   Vegmisc mailing list
> >   Vegmisc at ottawaveg.com
> >  
> http://lists.ottawaveg.com/mailman/listinfo/vegmisc
> 
> 
> >_______________________________________________
> >Vegmisc mailing list
> >Vegmisc at ottawaveg.com
> >http://lists.ottawaveg.com/mailman/listinfo/vegmisc
> 
> > _______________________________________________
> Vegmisc mailing list
> Vegmisc at ottawaveg.com
> http://lists.ottawaveg.com/mailman/listinfo/vegmisc
> 



		
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From natasha at simplyraw.ca  Wed Nov  2 16:32:41 2005
From: natasha at simplyraw.ca (Natasha)
Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2005 11:32:41 -0500
Subject: [Vegmisc] Raw Vegan Food Prep Workshops
Message-ID: <4368EA29.7060505@simplyraw.ca>


Back by popular demand, SimplyRaw is offering a series of raw vegan food 
prep workshops. Learn basic techniques of how to make delicious, simple 
meals for yourself and others.  These classes are presented in a 
relaxed, fun environment with questions and answers throughout. Cost is 
$50. per workshop. Class size is limited to 12 people, so register early.

Spiral Noodles & Sauces - Nov 19
Holiday Recipes - Dec 10
Healing Workshop - Jan 14
Mediterranean Class - Jan 28

To register, contact info at SimplyRaw.ca <mailto:info at SimplyRaw.ca>
or visit www.SimplyRaw.ca <http://www.SimplyRaw.ca>



From v at vaalea.com  Fri Nov  4 06:28:07 2005
From: v at vaalea.com (vaalea)
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2005 01:28:07 -0500
Subject: [Vegmisc] Food prep classes at The Table??
References: <4368EA29.7060505@simplyraw.ca>
Message-ID: <04d801c5e108$ebe79d60$6400a8c0@v>

I remember some of you mentioning this/interested in this back when we ate 
there... and ones at Loblaws?....

Stuff like that might be interesting to know about too. 



From karen_g38 at hotmail.com  Mon Nov  7 03:16:19 2005
From: karen_g38 at hotmail.com (Karen G.)
Date: Sun, 06 Nov 2005 22:16:19 -0500
Subject: [Vegmisc] Vegan Multi-Vitamins
Message-ID: <BAY107-F171F9B568CAA869F9F7AAB8F650@phx.gbl>

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From karen_g38 at hotmail.com  Mon Nov  7 03:26:16 2005
From: karen_g38 at hotmail.com (Karen G.)
Date: Sun, 06 Nov 2005 22:26:16 -0500
Subject: [Vegmisc] Food prep classes at The Table??
In-Reply-To: <04d801c5e108$ebe79d60$6400a8c0@v>
Message-ID: <BAY107-F36B799A19077E5FD4CF20F8F650@phx.gbl>

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From v at vaalea.com  Mon Nov  7 04:14:47 2005
From: v at vaalea.com (vaalea)
Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2005 23:14:47 -0500
Subject: [Vegmisc] Vegan Multi-Vitamins
References: <BAY107-F171F9B568CAA869F9F7AAB8F650@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <17eb01c5e351$d074d160$6500a8c0@v>

This has been one of my compromises... I get vegetarian ones... Natural Factors. .....so I would also be interested if anyone knows of vegan ones in Ottawa.

This is an email response I got from Natural Factors April 2004:

Thank-you again for your inquiry regarding Natural Factors Hi Potency Multivitamin product. Natural Factors has many different multi vitamin products in both tablet and capsule forms, however they  all contain vitamin D3 which is sourced from Lanolin (sheep's wool) and not suitable for vegans.

Natural Factors is committed to providing quality products and services, your feedback is important in achieving this goal.  Thank you for your interest and support.


W. Fuller
Customer Service
Natural Factors Nutritional Products Ltd.
1-800-663-8900
E-Mail:  custservice at naturalfactors.com






  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Karen G. 
  To: vegmisc at ottawaveg.com 
  Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2005 10:16 PM
  Subject: [Vegmisc] Vegan Multi-Vitamins


  Just wondering if anyone knows of a vegan multi-vitamin available in Canada?  I've been buying them from Pangea (http://www.veganstore.com/) but it gets expensive paying $US plus S&H plus duty.

  Thanks!


------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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  Vegmisc mailing list
  Vegmisc at ottawaveg.com
  http://lists.ottawaveg.com/mailman/listinfo/vegmisc
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From kevin at oshea.ca  Mon Nov  7 15:41:38 2005
From: kevin at oshea.ca (Kevin O'Shea)
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2005 10:41:38 -0500
Subject: [Vegmisc] Vegan Multi-Vitamins
Message-ID: <200511071541.jA7FfSwi021351@mail2.magma.ca>


I buy mine vegan vitamins online - since the company is in BC, I don't pay provincial sales tax, and if your order is over $50, shipping is free.


Take a look at the following link:
http://www.canadianvitaminshop.com/cgi-bin/TheVitaminShop.storefront/436f6cbc025694e227414200c149068b/Product/View/5620

I don't see vitamin D3 in the on-line list of ingredients - is this something I should be wanting in a vitamin, as a vegan?

Details:
Sisu

VEGI-MINS 
 90 Tablet  - $21.98

An all natural, vegetarian multiple vitamin and chelated mineral daily supplement containing no animal products or sources. Sisu Vegi-Mins' low ingredient potency allows each individual to design dosages specific to their own personal needs, and the coated, oblong tablet is easy to swallow. Due to our busy modern lifestyles, and the reduction of vitamin and mineral intake partly due to modern food production and handling methods, supplementation with a multiple vitamin and mineral complex is critical for optimal health and longevity. 
 

Hope this helps,
Kevin

>
>Subject: Re: [Vegmisc] Vegan Multi-Vitamins
>   From: "vaalea" <v at vaalea.com>
>   Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2005 23:14:47 -0500
>     To: <vegmisc at ottawaveg.com>
>
>This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>
>--===============0754998713==
>Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
>	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_17E5_01C5E327.E1E3CE80"
>
>This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>
>------=_NextPart_000_17E5_01C5E327.E1E3CE80
>Content-Type: text/plain;
>	charset="iso-8859-1"
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
>This has been one of my compromises... I get vegetarian ones... Natural =
>Factors. .....so I would also be interested if anyone knows of vegan =
>ones in Ottawa.
>
>This is an email response I got from Natural Factors April 2004:
>
>Thank-you again for your inquiry regarding Natural Factors Hi Potency =
>Multivitamin product. Natural Factors has many different multi vitamin =
>products in both tablet and capsule forms, however they  all contain =
>vitamin D3 which is sourced from Lanolin (sheep's wool) and not suitable =
>for vegans.
>
>Natural Factors is committed to providing quality products and services, =
>your feedback is important in achieving this goal.  Thank you for your =
>interest and support.
>
>
>W. Fuller
>Customer Service
>Natural Factors Nutritional Products Ltd.
>1-800-663-8900
>E-Mail:  custservice at naturalfactors.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  ----- Original Message -----=20
>  From: Karen G.=20
>  To: vegmisc at ottawaveg.com=20
>  Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2005 10:16 PM
>  Subject: [Vegmisc] Vegan Multi-Vitamins
>
>
>  Just wondering if anyone knows of a vegan multi-vitamin available in =
>Canada?  I've been buying them from Pangea (http://www.veganstore.com/) =
>but it gets expensive paying $US plus S&H plus duty.
>
>  Thanks!
>
>
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
>-----
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  Vegmisc mailing list
>  Vegmisc at ottawaveg.com
>  http://lists.ottawaveg.com/mailman/listinfo/vegmisc
>
>------=_NextPart_000_17E5_01C5E327.E1E3CE80
>Content-Type: text/html;
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><STYLE></STYLE>
></HEAD>
><BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
><DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow">This has been one of my compromises... =
>I get=20
>vegetarian ones... Natural Factors. .....so I would also be interested =
>if anyone=20
>knows of vegan ones in Ottawa.</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow"></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow">This is an email response I got from =
>Natural=20
>Factors April 2004:</FONT></DIV>
><DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
><DIV>Thank-you again for your inquiry regarding Natural Factors Hi =
>Potency=20
>Multivitamin product. Natural Factors has many different multi vitamin =
>products=20
>in both tablet and capsule forms, however they&nbsp; all contain vitamin =
>D3=20
>which is sourced from Lanolin (sheep's wool) and not suitable for=20
>vegans.<BR><BR>Natural Factors is committed to providing quality =
>products and=20
>services, your feedback is important in achieving this goal.&nbsp; Thank =
>you for=20
>your interest and support.<BR><BR><BR>W. Fuller<BR>Customer =
>Service<BR>Natural=20
>Factors Nutritional Products Ltd.<BR>1-800-663-8900<BR>E-Mail:&nbsp; <A=20
>href=3D"">custservice at naturalfactors.com</A><BR></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow"></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow"></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow"></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow"></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow"></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
><BLOCKQUOTE=20
>style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
>BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
>  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
>  <DIV=20
>  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
>black"><B>From:</B>=20
>  <A title=3Dkaren_g38 at hotmail.com =
>href=3D"mailto:karen_g38 at hotmail.com">Karen=20
>  G.</A> </DIV>
>  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
>title=3Dvegmisc at ottawaveg.com=20
>  href=3D"mailto:vegmisc at ottawaveg.com">vegmisc at ottawaveg.com</A> </DIV>
>  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, November 06, 2005 =
>10:16=20
>  PM</DIV>
>  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [Vegmisc] Vegan=20
>  Multi-Vitamins</DIV>
>  <DIV><BR></DIV>
>  <DIV>
>  <DIV class=3DRTE>Just wondering if anyone knows of a vegan =
>multi-vitamin=20
>  available in Canada?&nbsp; I've been buying them from Pangea (<A=20
>  href=3D"http://www.veganstore.com/">http://www.veganstore.com/</A>) =
>but it gets=20
>  expensive paying $US plus S&amp;H plus duty.</DIV>
>  <DIV class=3DRTE>&nbsp;</DIV>
>  <DIV class=3DRTE>Thanks!</DIV></DIV>
>  <P>
>  <HR>
>
>  <P></P>_______________________________________________<BR>Vegmisc =
>mailing=20
>  list<BR><A =
>href=3D"mailto:Vegmisc at ottawaveg.com">Vegmisc at ottawaveg.com</A><BR><A=20
>  =
>href=3D"http://lists.ottawaveg.com/mailman/listinfo/vegmisc">http://lists=
>..ottawaveg.com/mailman/listinfo/vegmisc</A><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML=
>>
>
>------=_NextPart_000_17E5_01C5E327.E1E3CE80--
>
>
>--===============0754998713==
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>Content-Disposition: inline
>
>_______________________________________________
>Vegmisc mailing list
>Vegmisc at ottawaveg.com
>http://lists.ottawaveg.com/mailman/listinfo/vegmisc
>
>--===============0754998713==--



From hockeysk8 at gmail.com  Mon Nov  7 21:46:35 2005
From: hockeysk8 at gmail.com (Kevin J. Smith)
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2005 13:46:35 -0800
Subject: [Vegmisc] Vegan Multi-Vitamins
In-Reply-To: <200511071541.jA7FfSwi021351@mail2.magma.ca>
References: <200511071541.jA7FfSwi021351@mail2.magma.ca>
Message-ID: <1ee0630e0511071346n7ece56edx4f4588dbf54dca39@mail.gmail.com>

My question is, why is everyone wasting their money on vitamins? Do you not
eat well? With the exception of B12 for the vegans among us, everything you
need is in the food you should be eating.

I am always disappointed in vegetarian/natural food stores that fill half of
their store with pills. It is very poor advertising for eating "naturally."
I can hear the comments from the vegetarian nay-sayers, "See, being
vegetarian is not healthy ... look at all the pills you have to consume in
order to get your proper nutrients."

Should we not be leading by example and demonstrating how healthy it is just
by eating whole, unprocessed foods?

P.S.
(B12 is added to most soy/rice beverages)

On 11/7/05, Kevin O'Shea <kevin at oshea.ca> wrote:
>
>
> I buy mine vegan vitamins online - since the company is in BC, I don't pay
> provincial sales tax, and if your order is over $50, shipping is free.
>
>
> Take a look at the following link:
>
> http://www.canadianvitaminshop.com/cgi-bin/TheVitaminShop.storefront/436f6cbc025694e227414200c149068b/Product/View/5620
>
> I don't see vitamin D3 in the on-line list of ingredients - is this
> something I should be wanting in a vitamin, as a vegan?
>
> Details:
> Sisu
>
> VEGI-MINS
> 90 Tablet - $21.98
>
> An all natural, vegetarian multiple vitamin and chelated mineral daily
> supplement containing no animal products or sources. Sisu Vegi-Mins' low
> ingredient potency allows each individual to design dosages specific to
> their own personal needs, and the coated, oblong tablet is easy to swallow.
> Due to our busy modern lifestyles, and the reduction of vitamin and mineral
> intake partly due to modern food production and handling methods,
> supplementation with a multiple vitamin and mineral complex is critical for
> optimal health and longevity.
>
>
> Hope this helps,
> Kevin
>
> >
> >Subject: Re: [Vegmisc] Vegan Multi-Vitamins
> > From: "vaalea" <v at vaalea.com>
> > Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2005 23:14:47 -0500
> > To: <vegmisc at ottawaveg.com>
> >
> >This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
> >
> >--===============0754998713==
> >Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
> > boundary="----=_NextPart_000_17E5_01C5E327.E1E3CE80"
> >
> >This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
> >
> >------=_NextPart_000_17E5_01C5E327.E1E3CE80
> >Content-Type: text/plain;
> > charset="iso-8859-1"
> >Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> >
> >This has been one of my compromises... I get vegetarian ones... Natural =
> >Factors. .....so I would also be interested if anyone knows of vegan =
> >ones in Ottawa.
> >
> >This is an email response I got from Natural Factors April 2004:
> >
> >Thank-you again for your inquiry regarding Natural Factors Hi Potency =
> >Multivitamin product. Natural Factors has many different multi vitamin =
> >products in both tablet and capsule forms, however they all contain =
> >vitamin D3 which is sourced from Lanolin (sheep's wool) and not suitable
> =
> >for vegans.
> >
> >Natural Factors is committed to providing quality products and services,
> =
> >your feedback is important in achieving this goal. Thank you for your =
> >interest and support.
> >
> >
> >W. Fuller
> >Customer Service
> >Natural Factors Nutritional Products Ltd.
> >1-800-663-8900
> >E-Mail: custservice at naturalfactors.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----=20
> > From: Karen G.=20
> > To: vegmisc at ottawaveg.com=20
> > Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2005 10:16 PM
> > Subject: [Vegmisc] Vegan Multi-Vitamins
> >
> >
> > Just wondering if anyone knows of a vegan multi-vitamin available in =
> >Canada? I've been buying them from Pangea (http://www.veganstore.com/) =
> >but it gets expensive paying $US plus S&H plus duty.
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> >
>
> >-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> >-----
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Vegmisc mailing list
> > Vegmisc at ottawaveg.com
> > http://lists.ottawaveg.com/mailman/listinfo/vegmisc
> >
> >------=_NextPart_000_17E5_01C5E327.E1E3CE80
> >Content-Type: text/html;
> > charset="iso-8859-1"
> >Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> >
> ><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
> ><HTML><HEAD>
> ><META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
> >charset=3Diso-8859-1">
> ><META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.2769" name=3DGENERATOR>
> ><STYLE></STYLE>
> ></HEAD>
> ><BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
> ><DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow">This has been one of my compromises... =
> >I get=20
> >vegetarian ones... Natural Factors. .....so I would also be interested =
> >if anyone=20
> >knows of vegan ones in Ottawa.</FONT></DIV>
> ><DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow"></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
> ><DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow">This is an email response I got from =
> >Natural=20
> >Factors April 2004:</FONT></DIV>
> ><DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
> ><DIV>Thank-you again for your inquiry regarding Natural Factors Hi =
> >Potency=20
> >Multivitamin product. Natural Factors has many different multi vitamin =
> >products=20
> >in both tablet and capsule forms, however they&nbsp; all contain vitamin
> =
> >D3=20
> >which is sourced from Lanolin (sheep's wool) and not suitable for=20
> >vegans.<BR><BR>Natural Factors is committed to providing quality =
> >products and=20
> >services, your feedback is important in achieving this goal.&nbsp; Thank
> =
> >you for=20
> >your interest and support.<BR><BR><BR>W. Fuller<BR>Customer =
> >Service<BR>Natural=20
> >Factors Nutritional Products Ltd.<BR>1-800-663-8900<BR>E-Mail:&nbsp;
> <A=20
> >href=3D"">custservice at naturalfactors.com</A><BR></DIV>
> ><DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow"></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
> ><DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow"></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
> ><DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow"></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
> ><DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow"></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
> ><DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow"></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
> ><BLOCKQUOTE=20
> >style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
> >BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
> > <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
> > <DIV=20
> > style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
> >black"><B>From:</B>=20
> > <A title=3Dkaren_g38 at hotmail.com =
> >href=3D"mailto:karen_g38 at hotmail.com">Karen=20
> > G.</A> </DIV>
> > <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
> >title=3Dvegmisc at ottawaveg.com=20
> > href=3D"mailto:vegmisc at ottawaveg.com">vegmisc at ottawaveg.com</A> </DIV>
> > <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, November 06, 2005 =
> >10:16=20
> > PM</DIV>
> > <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [Vegmisc] Vegan=20
> > Multi-Vitamins</DIV>
> > <DIV><BR></DIV>
> > <DIV>
> > <DIV class=3DRTE>Just wondering if anyone knows of a vegan =
> >multi-vitamin=20
> > available in Canada?&nbsp; I've been buying them from Pangea (<A=20
> > href=3D"http://www.veganstore.com/">http://www.veganstore.com/</A>) =
> >but it gets=20
> > expensive paying $US plus S&amp;H plus duty.</DIV>
> > <DIV class=3DRTE>&nbsp;</DIV>
> > <DIV class=3DRTE>Thanks!</DIV></DIV>
> > <P>
> > <HR>
> >
> > <P></P>_______________________________________________<BR>Vegmisc =
> >mailing=20
> > list<BR><A =
> >href=3D"mailto:Vegmisc at ottawaveg.com">Vegmisc at ottawaveg.com</A><BR><A=20
> > =
> >href=3D"http://lists.ottawaveg.com/mailman/listinfo/vegmisc">
> http://lists=
>
> >..ottawaveg.com/mailman/listinfo/vegmisc</A><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML=
> >>
> >
> >------=_NextPart_000_17E5_01C5E327.E1E3CE80--
> >
> >
> >--===============0754998713==
> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >MIME-Version: 1.0
> >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> >Content-Disposition: inline
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >Vegmisc mailing list
> >Vegmisc at ottawaveg.com
> >http://lists.ottawaveg.com/mailman/listinfo/vegmisc
> >
> >--===============0754998713==--
>
> _______________________________________________
> Vegmisc mailing list
> Vegmisc at ottawaveg.com
> http://lists.ottawaveg.com/mailman/listinfo/vegmisc
>
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From v at vaalea.com  Tue Nov  8 00:04:38 2005
From: v at vaalea.com (vaalea)
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2005 19:04:38 -0500
Subject: [Vegmisc] Vegan Multi-Vitamins
References: <200511071541.jA7FfSwi021351@mail2.magma.ca>
	<1ee0630e0511071346n7ece56edx4f4588dbf54dca39@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <007d01c5e3f8$04439660$6b00a8c0@v>

I think that BOTH veg*ns AND non-veg*ns take multi-vitamins, because even if eating healthy, we are not all professional nutritionists, and like to take vitamins to fill in any possible gaps in our diet we may be missing. I would think that MOST people who buy vitamins are not veg*ns, thus they can't accuse the veg*n diet of needing supplementing. (Why not ask them how many non-veg*ns they know take vitamins).

I personally only occasionally take a vitamin, because it is a bit of a pain... and also because I'd like to think even though my diet isn't perfect, it is healthy /enough/.... however I did have low iron levels a year ago, (is it hereditary? cause meat eaters in my family had this problem too.) I haven't taken pills for it (like the doc suggested)... I do know what foods have iron in them.. I haven't yet bought iron cookware... so I figure popping a vitamin now and then isn't going to hurt... and I wouldn't be against doing it everyday if I got into the habit.... 

If it's not going to harm us/others, then why not if we want (and it may be beneficial)?



----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Kevin J. Smith 
  To: vegmisc at ottawaveg.com 
  Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 4:46 PM
  Subject: Re: [Vegmisc] Vegan Multi-Vitamins


  My question is, why is everyone wasting their money on vitamins?  Do you not eat well?  With the exception of B12 for the vegans among us, everything you need is in the food you should be eating.

  I am always disappointed in vegetarian/natural food stores that fill half of their store with pills.  It is very poor advertising for eating "naturally."  I can hear the comments from the vegetarian nay-sayers, "See, being vegetarian is not healthy ... look at all the pills you have to consume in order to get your proper nutrients."

  Should we not be leading by example and demonstrating how healthy it is just by eating whole, unprocessed foods?

  P.S.
  (B12 is added to most soy/rice beverages)


  On 11/7/05, Kevin O'Shea <kevin at oshea.ca> wrote:

    I buy mine vegan vitamins online - since the company is in BC, I don't pay provincial sales tax, and if your order is over $50, shipping is free.


    Take a look at the following link:
    http://www.canadianvitaminshop.com/cgi-bin/TheVitaminShop.storefront/436f6cbc025694e227414200c149068b/Product/View/5620 

    I don't see vitamin D3 in the on-line list of ingredients - is this something I should be wanting in a vitamin, as a vegan?

    Details:
    Sisu

    VEGI-MINS
    90 Tablet  - $21.98

    An all natural, vegetarian multiple vitamin and chelated mineral daily supplement containing no animal products or sources. Sisu Vegi-Mins' low ingredient potency allows each individual to design dosages specific to their own personal needs, and the coated, oblong tablet is easy to swallow. Due to our busy modern lifestyles, and the reduction of vitamin and mineral intake partly due to modern food production and handling methods, supplementation with a multiple vitamin and mineral complex is critical for optimal health and longevity.


    Hope this helps,
    Kevin

    >
    >Subject: Re: [Vegmisc] Vegan Multi-Vitamins
    >   From: "vaalea" < v at vaalea.com>
    >   Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2005 23:14:47 -0500
    >     To: <vegmisc at ottawaveg.com>
    >
    >This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
    > 
    >--===============0754998713==
    >Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
    >       boundary="----=_NextPart_000_17E5_01C5E327.E1E3CE80"
    >
    >This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
    >
    >------=_NextPart_000_17E5_01C5E327.E1E3CE80
    >Content-Type: text/plain;
    >       charset="iso-8859-1"
    >Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    >
    >This has been one of my compromises... I get vegetarian ones... Natural = 
    >Factors. .....so I would also be interested if anyone knows of vegan =
    >ones in Ottawa.
    >
    >This is an email response I got from Natural Factors April 2004:
    >
    >Thank-you again for your inquiry regarding Natural Factors Hi Potency = 
    >Multivitamin product. Natural Factors has many different multi vitamin =
    >products in both tablet and capsule forms, however they  all contain =
    >vitamin D3 which is sourced from Lanolin (sheep's wool) and not suitable = 
    >for vegans.
    >
    >Natural Factors is committed to providing quality products and services, =
    >your feedback is important in achieving this goal.  Thank you for your =
    >interest and support.
    >
    >
    >W. Fuller
    >Customer Service
    >Natural Factors Nutritional Products Ltd.
    >1-800-663-8900
    >E-Mail:  custservice at naturalfactors.com 
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >  ----- Original Message -----=20
    >  From: Karen G.=20
    >  To: vegmisc at ottawaveg.com=20
    >  Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2005 10:16 PM
    >  Subject: [Vegmisc] Vegan Multi-Vitamins 
    >
    >
    >  Just wondering if anyone knows of a vegan multi-vitamin available in =
    >Canada?  I've been buying them from Pangea (http://www.veganstore.com/) =
    >but it gets expensive paying $US plus S&H plus duty.
    >
    >  Thanks!
    >
    >
    >-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
    >-----
    >
    >
    >  _______________________________________________ 
    >  Vegmisc mailing list
    >  Vegmisc at ottawaveg.com
    >  http://lists.ottawaveg.com/mailman/listinfo/vegmisc 
    >
    >------=_NextPart_000_17E5_01C5E327.E1E3CE80
    >Content-Type: text/html;
    >       charset="iso-8859-1"
    >Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    >
    ><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
    ><HTML><HEAD>
    ><META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
    >charset=3Diso-8859-1">
    ><META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.2769 " name=3DGENERATOR>
    ><STYLE></STYLE>
    ></HEAD>
    ><BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
    ><DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow">This has been one of my compromises... = 
    >I get=20
    >vegetarian ones... Natural Factors. .....so I would also be interested =
    >if anyone=20
    >knows of vegan ones in Ottawa.</FONT></DIV>
    ><DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow"></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> 
    ><DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow">This is an email response I got from =
    >Natural=20
    >Factors April 2004:</FONT></DIV>
    ><DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
    ><DIV>Thank-you again for your inquiry regarding Natural Factors Hi = 
    >Potency=20
    >Multivitamin product. Natural Factors has many different multi vitamin =
    >products=20
    >in both tablet and capsule forms, however they&nbsp; all contain vitamin =
    >D3=20
    >which is sourced from Lanolin (sheep's wool) and not suitable for=20 
    >vegans.<BR><BR>Natural Factors is committed to providing quality =
    >products and=20
    >services, your feedback is important in achieving this goal.&nbsp; Thank =
    >you for=20
    >your interest and support.<BR><BR><BR>W. Fuller<BR>Customer = 
    >Service<BR>Natural=20
    >Factors Nutritional Products Ltd.<BR>1-800-663-8900<BR>E-Mail:&nbsp; <A=20
    >href=3D"">custservice at naturalfactors.com </A><BR></DIV>
    ><DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow"></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    ><DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow"></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> 
    ><DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow"></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    ><DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow"></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    ><DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow"></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> 
    ><BLOCKQUOTE=20
    >style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
    >BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
    >  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> 
    >  <DIV=20
    >  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
    >black"><B>From:</B>=20
    >  <A title=3Dkaren_g38 at hotmail.com =
    >href=3D"mailto:karen_g38 at hotmail.com">Karen=20
    >  G.</A> </DIV>
    >  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A = 
    >title=3Dvegmisc at ottawaveg.com=20
    >  href=3D"mailto:vegmisc at ottawaveg.com">vegmisc at ottawaveg.com</A> </DIV> 
    >  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, November 06, 2005 =
    >10:16=20
    >  PM</DIV>
    >  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [Vegmisc] Vegan=20 
    >  Multi-Vitamins</DIV>
    >  <DIV><BR></DIV>
    >  <DIV>
    >  <DIV class=3DRTE>Just wondering if anyone knows of a vegan =
    >multi-vitamin=20
    >  available in Canada?&nbsp; I've been buying them from Pangea (<A=20 
    >  href=3D"http://www.veganstore.com/">http://www.veganstore.com/</A>) =
    >but it gets=20
    >  expensive paying $US plus S&amp;H plus duty.</DIV> 
    >  <DIV class=3DRTE>&nbsp;</DIV>
    >  <DIV class=3DRTE>Thanks!</DIV></DIV>
    >  <P>
    >  <HR>
    >
    >  <P></P>_______________________________________________<BR>Vegmisc = 
    >mailing=20
    >  list<BR><A =
    >href=3D"mailto:Vegmisc at ottawaveg.com">Vegmisc at ottawaveg.com</A><BR><A=20 
    >  =
    >href=3D"http://lists.ottawaveg.com/mailman/listinfo/vegmisc">http://lists=
    >..ottawaveg.com/mailman/listinfo/vegmisc</A><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML= 
    >>
    >
    >------=_NextPart_000_17E5_01C5E327.E1E3CE80--
    >
    >
    >--===============0754998713==
    >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
    >MIME-Version: 1.0
    >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 
    >Content-Disposition: inline
    >
    >_______________________________________________
    >Vegmisc mailing list
    >Vegmisc at ottawaveg.com
    > http://lists.ottawaveg.com/mailman/listinfo/vegmisc
    >
    >--===============0754998713==--

    _______________________________________________
    Vegmisc mailing list
    Vegmisc at ottawaveg.com
    http://lists.ottawaveg.com/mailman/listinfo/vegmisc





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From mbarrett at connect.carleton.ca  Tue Nov  8 00:48:56 2005
From: mbarrett at connect.carleton.ca (Meredith Barrett)
Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2005 19:48:56 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Vegmisc] Vegan Multi-Vitamins
Message-ID: <5186454.1131410936326.JavaMail.mbarrett@connect.carleton.ca>

i have had problems with extremely low iron counts and take iron 
supplements. if you are interested in taking iron (and i'd recommend it 
if you are in fact low, having low iron is rather debilitating if it 
continues!) then you should ask about the iron they keep behind the 
counter. it's called ferrous something or rather. these pills have more 
iron in them than what you find on the shelves which is a minute amount 
and largely ineffective if you're looking to boost your iron count 
overall and permanently. don't waste your money on the stuff on the 
shelves, what is behind the counter doesn't need a prescription, it's 
just kept there with the nicorette patch and stuff. just a suggestion!
meredith


vaalea wrote:


>I think that BOTH veg*ns AND non-veg*ns take multi-vitamins, because 
even if eating healthy, we are not all professional nutritionists, and 
like to take vitamins to fill in any possible gaps in our diet we may 
be missing. I would think that MOST people who buy vitamins are not 
veg*ns, thus they can't accuse the veg*n diet of needing supplementing. 
(Why not ask them how many non-veg*ns they know take vitamins).
>
>I personally only occasionally take a vitamin, because it is a bit of a 
pain... and also because I'd like to think even though my diet isn't 
perfect, it is healthy /enough/.... however I did have low iron levels 
a year ago, (is it hereditary? cause meat eaters in my family had this 
problem too.) I haven't taken pills for it (like the doc suggested)... 
I do know what foods have iron in them.. I haven't yet bought iron 
cookware... so I figure popping a vitamin now and then isn't going to 
hurt... and I wouldn't be against doing it everyday if I got into the 
habit.... 
>
>If it's not going to harm us/others, then why not if we want (and it 
may be beneficial)?
>
>
>
>----- Original Message ----- 
>  From: Kevin J. Smith 
>  To: vegmisc at ottawaveg.com 
>  Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 4:46 PM
>  Subject: Re: [Vegmisc] Vegan Multi-Vitamins
>
>
>  My question is, why is everyone wasting their money on vitamins?  Do 
you not eat well?  With the exception of B12 for the vegans among us, 
everything you need is in the food you should be eating.
>
>  I am always disappointed in vegetarian/natural food stores that fill 
half of their store with pills.  It is very poor advertising for eating 
"naturally."  I can hear the comments from the vegetarian nay-sayers, 
"See, being vegetarian is not healthy ... look at all the pills you 
have to consume in order to get your proper nutrients."
>
>  Should we not be leading by example and demonstrating how healthy it 
is just by eating whole, unprocessed foods?
>
>  P.S.
>  (B12 is added to most soy/rice beverages)
>
>
>  On 11/7/05, Kevin O'Shea <kevin at oshea.ca> wrote:
>
>    I buy mine vegan vitamins online - since the company is in BC, I 
don't pay provincial sales tax, and if your order is over $50, shipping 
is free.
>
>
>    Take a look at the following link:
>    
http://www.canadianvitaminshop.com/cgi-bin/TheVitaminShop.storefront/436f6cbc025694e227414200c149068b/Product/View/5620 
>
>    I don't see vitamin D3 in the on-line list of ingredients - is this 
something I should be wanting in a vitamin, as a vegan?
>
>    Details:
>    Sisu
>
>    VEGI-MINS
>    90 Tablet  - $21.98
>
>    An all natural, vegetarian multiple vitamin and chelated mineral 
daily supplement containing no animal products or sources. Sisu 
Vegi-Mins' low ingredient potency allows each individual to design 
dosages specific to their own personal needs, and the coated, oblong 
tablet is easy to swallow. Due to our busy modern lifestyles, and the 
reduction of vitamin and mineral intake partly due to modern food 
production and handling methods, supplementation with a multiple 
vitamin and mineral complex is critical for optimal health and 
longevity.
>
>
>    Hope this helps,
>    Kevin
>
>    >
>    >Subject: Re: [Vegmisc] Vegan Multi-Vitamins
>    >   From: "vaalea" < v at vaalea.com>
>    >   Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2005 23:14:47 -0500
>    >     To: <vegmisc at ottawaveg.com>
>    >
>    >This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>    > 
>    >--===============0754998713==
>    >Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
>    >       boundary="----=_NextPart_000_17E5_01C5E327.E1E3CE80"
>    >
>    >This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>    >
>    >------=_NextPart_000_17E5_01C5E327.E1E3CE80
>    >Content-Type: text/plain;
>    >       charset="iso-8859-1"
>    >Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>    >
>    >This has been one of my compromises... I get vegetarian ones... 
Natural = 
>    >Factors. .....so I would also be interested if anyone knows of 
vegan =
>    >ones in Ottawa.
>    >
>    >This is an email response I got from Natural Factors April 2004:
>    >
>    >Thank-you again for your inquiry regarding Natural Factors Hi 
Potency = 
>    >Multivitamin product. Natural Factors has many different multi 
vitamin =
>    >products in both tablet and capsule forms, however they  all 
contain =
>    >vitamin D3 which is sourced from Lanolin (sheep's wool) and not 
suitable = 
>    >for vegans.
>    >
>    >Natural Factors is committed to providing quality products and 
services, =
>    >your feedback is important in achieving this goal.  Thank you for 
your =
>    >interest and support.
>    >
>    >
>    >W. Fuller
>    >Customer Service
>    >Natural Factors Nutritional Products Ltd.
>    >1-800-663-8900
>    >E-Mail:  custservice at naturalfactors.com 
>    >
>    >
>    >
>    >
>    >
>    >
>    >  ----- Original Message -----=20
>    >  From: Karen G.=20
>    >  To: vegmisc at ottawaveg.com=20
>    >  Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2005 10:16 PM
>    >  Subject: [Vegmisc] Vegan Multi-Vitamins 
>    >
>    >
>    >  Just wondering if anyone knows of a vegan multi-vitamin 
available in =
>    >Canada?  I've been buying them from Pangea 
(http://www.veganstore.com/) =
>    >but it gets expensive paying $US plus S&H plus duty.
>    >
>    >  Thanks!
>    >
>    >
>    
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
-=
>    >-----
>    >
>    >
>    >  _______________________________________________ 
>    >  Vegmisc mailing list
>    >  Vegmisc at ottawaveg.com
>    >  http://lists.ottawaveg.com/mailman/listinfo/vegmisc 
>    >
>    >------=_NextPart_000_17E5_01C5E327.E1E3CE80
>    >Content-Type: text/html;
>    >       charset="iso-8859-1"
>    >Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>    >
>    ><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
>    ><HTML><HEAD>
>    ><META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
>    >charset=3Diso-8859-1">
>    ><META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.2769 " name=3DGENERATOR>
>    ><STYLE></STYLE>
>    ></HEAD>
>    ><BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
>    ><DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow">This has been one of my 
compromises... = 
>    >I get=20
>    >vegetarian ones... Natural Factors. .....so I would also be 
interested =
>    >if anyone=20
>    >knows of vegan ones in Ottawa.</FONT></DIV>
>    ><DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow"></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> 
>    ><DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow">This is an email response I got 
from =
>    >Natural=20
>    >Factors April 2004:</FONT></DIV>
>    ><DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
>    ><DIV>Thank-you again for your inquiry regarding Natural Factors Hi 
= 
>    >Potency=20
>    >Multivitamin product. Natural Factors has many different multi 
vitamin =
>    >products=20
>    >in both tablet and capsule forms, however they&nbsp; all contain 
vitamin =
>    >D3=20
>    >which is sourced from Lanolin (sheep's wool) and not suitable 
for=20 
>    >vegans.<BR><BR>Natural Factors is committed to providing quality =
>    >products and=20
>    >services, your feedback is important in achieving this goal.&nbsp; 
Thank =
>    >you for=20
>    >your interest and support.<BR><BR><BR>W. Fuller<BR>Customer = 
>    >Service<BR>Natural=20
>    >Factors Nutritional Products 
Ltd.<BR>1-800-663-8900<BR>E-Mail:&nbsp; <A=20
>    >href=3D"">custservice at naturalfactors.com </A><BR></DIV>
>    ><DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow"></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
>    ><DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow"></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> 
>    ><DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow"></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
>    ><DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow"></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
>    ><DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow"></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> 
>    ><BLOCKQUOTE=20
>    >style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
>    >BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
>    >  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- 
</DIV> 
>    >  <DIV=20
>    >  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
>    >black"><B>From:</B>=20
>    >  <A title=3Dkaren_g38 at hotmail.com =
>    >href=3D"mailto:karen_g38 at hotmail.com">Karen=20
>    >  G.</A> </DIV>
>    >  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A = 
>    >title=3Dvegmisc at ottawaveg.com=20
>    >  href=3D"mailto:vegmisc at ottawaveg.com">vegmisc at ottawaveg.com</A> 
</DIV> 
>    >  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, November 
06, 2005 =
>    >10:16=20
>    >  PM</DIV>
>    >  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [Vegmisc] 
Vegan=20 
>    >  Multi-Vitamins</DIV>
>    >  <DIV><BR></DIV>
>    >  <DIV>
>    >  <DIV class=3DRTE>Just wondering if anyone knows of a vegan =
>    >multi-vitamin=20
>    >  available in Canada?&nbsp; I've been buying them from Pangea 
(<A=20 
>    >  
href=3D"http://www.veganstore.com/">http://www.veganstore.com/</A>) =
>    >but it gets=20
>    >  expensive paying $US plus S&amp;H plus duty.</DIV> 
>    >  <DIV class=3DRTE>&nbsp;</DIV>
>    >  <DIV class=3DRTE>Thanks!</DIV></DIV>
>    >  <P>
>    >  <HR>
>    >
>    >  
<P></P>_______________________________________________<BR>Vegmisc = 
>    >mailing=20
>    >  list<BR><A =
>    
>href=3D"mailto:Vegmisc at ottawaveg.com">Vegmisc at ottawaveg.com</A><BR><A=20
 
>    >  =
>    
>href=3D"http://lists.ottawaveg.com/mailman/listinfo/vegmisc">http://list
s=
>    
>..ottawaveg.com/mailman/listinfo/vegmisc</A><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HT
ML= 
>    >>
>    >
>    >------=_NextPart_000_17E5_01C5E327.E1E3CE80--
>    >
>    >
>    >--===============0754998713==
>    >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>    >MIME-Version: 1.0
>    >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 
>    >Content-Disposition: inline
>    >
>    >_______________________________________________
>    >Vegmisc mailing list
>    >Vegmisc at ottawaveg.com
>    > http://lists.ottawaveg.com/mailman/listinfo/vegmisc
>    >
>    >--===============0754998713==--
>
>    _______________________________________________
>    Vegmisc mailing list
>    Vegmisc at ottawaveg.com
>    http://lists.ottawaveg.com/mailman/listinfo/vegmisc
>
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
------
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  Vegmisc mailing list
>  Vegmisc at ottawaveg.com
>  http://lists.ottawaveg.com/mailman/listinfo/vegmisc
>


------------------------------------------------------------------------


_______________________________________________
>Vegmisc mailing list
>Vegmisc at ottawaveg.com
>http://lists.ottawaveg.com/mailman/listinfo/vegmisc
>


From mjpatry at yahoo.com  Tue Nov  8 01:51:00 2005
From: mjpatry at yahoo.com (Marie-Josée Patry)
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2005 17:51:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Vegmisc] Vegan Multi-Vitamins
In-Reply-To: <007d01c5e3f8$04439660$6b00a8c0@v>
Message-ID: <20051108015100.54353.qmail@web32813.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I had the chance to go to the World Vegetarian Fair in
Toronto in 2000 and went to a lecture called "What you
should know about vitamins".  I can't remember the
name of the doctor or everything he was saying but I
never took a vitamin pill since.  According to him, we
do more damage to our body by taking those pills.  I
did my own research and I have to say when you start
reading studies that are not done by the "pill
industry", we should stick to broccoli and apples if
we want to be healthy! 
I just did a quick search right now and copied bellow
some of my finding (this is from different internet
sites): 

"...A further reason to try to avoid looking for the
magic results of mega doses of vitamins is that they
can have toxic effects. Some people think that because
some is good, more is better, which is not necessarily
the case. This is particularly true with vitamins that
are fat soluble like vitamin A and will be stored up
in the liver. This can eventually reach toxic levels
and can damage the liver. Vitamin C will just be
secreted with the urine but it can cause diarrhea at
levels of 2000 mg a day, which is lower than the
amount many people take to stave off colds..." 

"...The notion that antioxidant vitamins could provide
a safe, convenient way to protect the heart from
disease appears to have hit a pothole. Instead of
protecting the heart, a new study suggests that the
vitamins, such as E, C, and beta carotene, could raise
the production by the liver of the so-called bad form
of cholesterol, which transports cholesterol into the
artery walls..."

"...Our study results do not support the use of
high-dose vitamin E supplements. If people are taking
a multivitamin, they should make sure it contains no
more than a low dose of vitamin E,? said study lead
author and internist Edgar R. Miller III, M.D., Ph.D.,
associate professor of medicine at The Johns Hopkins
University School of Medicine. ?A lot of people take
vitamins because they believe it will benefit their
health in the long term and prolong life. But our
study shows that use of high-dose vitamin E
supplements certainly did not prolong life, but was
associated with a higher risk of death....?

"...Vitamin E capsules, used as supplements, typically
contain 400 IU to 800 IU. The study results indicated
that these high-dose supplements were associated with
a higher risk of death..."

The information I found is endless.  Go have a look
but remember to check the source when you need
information about vitamins. This is a big money
industry, they want you to buy and they know how to
sale their stuff. Even if doctors or dietitians say it
is good for you it does not mean it is.  Well, I guess
you all know that since most doctors and dietitians
believe we should drink milk and eat red meat!
  
Marie

--- vaalea <v at vaalea.com> wrote:

> I think that BOTH veg*ns AND non-veg*ns take
> multi-vitamins, because even if eating healthy, we
> are not all professional nutritionists, and like to
> take vitamins to fill in any possible gaps in our
> diet we may be missing. I would think that MOST
> people who buy vitamins are not veg*ns, thus they
> can't accuse the veg*n diet of needing
> supplementing. (Why not ask them how many non-veg*ns
> they know take vitamins).
> 
> I personally only occasionally take a vitamin,
> because it is a bit of a pain... and also because
> I'd like to think even though my diet isn't perfect,
> it is healthy /enough/.... however I did have low
> iron levels a year ago, (is it hereditary? cause
> meat eaters in my family had this problem too.) I
> haven't taken pills for it (like the doc
> suggested)... I do know what foods have iron in
> them.. I haven't yet bought iron cookware... so I
> figure popping a vitamin now and then isn't going to
> hurt... and I wouldn't be against doing it everyday
> if I got into the habit.... 
> 
> If it's not going to harm us/others, then why not if
> we want (and it may be beneficial)?
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: Kevin J. Smith 
>   To: vegmisc at ottawaveg.com 
>   Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 4:46 PM
>   Subject: Re: [Vegmisc] Vegan Multi-Vitamins
> 
> 
>   My question is, why is everyone wasting their
> money on vitamins?  Do you not eat well?  With the
> exception of B12 for the vegans among us, everything
> you need is in the food you should be eating.
> 
>   I am always disappointed in vegetarian/natural
> food stores that fill half of their store with
> pills.  It is very poor advertising for eating
> "naturally."  I can hear the comments from the
> vegetarian nay-sayers, "See, being vegetarian is not
> healthy ... look at all the pills you have to
> consume in order to get your proper nutrients."
> 
>   Should we not be leading by example and
> demonstrating how healthy it is just by eating
> whole, unprocessed foods?
> 
>   P.S.
>   (B12 is added to most soy/rice beverages)
> 
> 
>   On 11/7/05, Kevin O'Shea <kevin at oshea.ca> wrote:
> 
>     I buy mine vegan vitamins online - since the
> company is in BC, I don't pay provincial sales tax,
> and if your order is over $50, shipping is free.
> 
> 
>     Take a look at the following link:
>    
>
http://www.canadianvitaminshop.com/cgi-bin/TheVitaminShop.storefront/436f6cbc025694e227414200c149068b/Product/View/5620
> 
> 
>     I don't see vitamin D3 in the on-line list of
> ingredients - is this something I should be wanting
> in a vitamin, as a vegan?
> 
>     Details:
>     Sisu
> 
>     VEGI-MINS
>     90 Tablet  - $21.98
> 
>     An all natural, vegetarian multiple vitamin and
> chelated mineral daily supplement containing no
> animal products or sources. Sisu Vegi-Mins' low
> ingredient potency allows each individual to design
> dosages specific to their own personal needs, and
> the coated, oblong tablet is easy to swallow. Due to
> our busy modern lifestyles, and the reduction of
> vitamin and mineral intake partly due to modern food
> production and handling methods, supplementation
> with a multiple vitamin and mineral complex is
> critical for optimal health and longevity.
> 
> 
>     Hope this helps,
>     Kevin
> 
>     >
>     >Subject: Re: [Vegmisc] Vegan Multi-Vitamins
>     >   From: "vaalea" < v at vaalea.com>
>     >   Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2005 23:14:47 -0500
>     >     To: <vegmisc at ottawaveg.com>
>     >
>     >This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>     > 
>     >--===============0754998713==
>     >Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
>     >      
> boundary="----=_NextPart_000_17E5_01C5E327.E1E3CE80"
>     >
>     >This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>     >
>     >------=_NextPart_000_17E5_01C5E327.E1E3CE80
>     >Content-Type: text/plain;
>     >       charset="iso-8859-1"
>     >Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>     >
>     >This has been one of my compromises... I get
> vegetarian ones... Natural = 
>     >Factors. .....so I would also be interested if
> anyone knows of vegan =
>     >ones in Ottawa.
>     >
>     >This is an email response I got from Natural
> Factors April 2004:
>     >
>     >Thank-you again for your inquiry regarding
> Natural Factors Hi Potency = 
>     >Multivitamin product. Natural Factors has many
> different multi vitamin =
>     >products in both tablet and capsule forms,
> however they  all contain =
>     >vitamin D3 which is sourced from Lanolin
> (sheep's wool) and not suitable = 
>     >for vegans.
>     >
>     >Natural Factors is committed to providing
> quality products and services, =
>     >your feedback is important in achieving this
> goal.  Thank you for your =
>     >interest and support.
>     >
>     >
>     >W. Fuller
>     >Customer Service
>     >Natural Factors Nutritional Products Ltd.
>     >1-800-663-8900
>     >E-Mail:  custservice at naturalfactors.com 
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     >  ----- Original Message -----=20
>     >  From: Karen G.=20
>     >  To: vegmisc at ottawaveg.com=20
>     >  Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2005 10:16 PM
>     >  Subject: [Vegmisc] Vegan Multi-Vitamins 
>     >
>     >
>     >  Just wondering if anyone knows of a vegan
> multi-vitamin available in =
>     >Canada?  I've been buying them from Pangea
> (http://www.veganstore.com/) =
>     >but it gets expensive paying $US plus S&H plus
> duty.
>     >
>     >  Thanks!
>     >
>     >
>    
>
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
>     >-----
>     >
>     >
>     > 
> _______________________________________________ 
>     >  Vegmisc mailing list
>     >  Vegmisc at ottawaveg.com
>     > 
> http://lists.ottawaveg.com/mailman/listinfo/vegmisc 
>     >
>     >------=_NextPart_000_17E5_01C5E327.E1E3CE80
>     >Content-Type: text/html;
>     >       charset="iso-8859-1"
>     >Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>     >
>     ><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0
> Transitional//EN">
>     ><HTML><HEAD>
>     ><META http-equiv=3DContent-Type
> content=3D"text/html; =
>     >charset=3Diso-8859-1">
>     ><META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.2769 "
> name=3DGENERATOR>
>     ><STYLE></STYLE>
>     ></HEAD>
>     ><BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
>     ><DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow">This has been
> one of my compromises... = 
>     >I get=20
>     >vegetarian ones... Natural Factors. .....so I
> would also be interested =
> 
=== message truncated ===>
_______________________________________________
> Vegmisc mailing list
> Vegmisc at ottawaveg.com
> http://lists.ottawaveg.com/mailman/listinfo/vegmisc
> 


	
		
__________________________________ 
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 
http://mail.yahoo.com


From v at vaalea.com  Tue Nov  8 02:23:32 2005
From: v at vaalea.com (vaalea)
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2005 21:23:32 -0500
Subject: [Vegmisc] Vegan Multi-Vitamins
References: <5186454.1131410936326.JavaMail.mbarrett@connect.carleton.ca>
Message-ID: <003301c5e40b$6ca47ea0$6b00a8c0@v>

Yeah, the doc wrote that name down and told me to get it.. but I didn't. =0|

The one thing about iron is low iron doesn't KILL you, but you can overdose 
and die on it.... or at least that is what I seem to remember reading last 
yearish... I could be wrong.

I had "good intentions" of boosting it naturally that I didn't want to 
bother with pills... but yeah... I should at least try I suppose.



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Meredith Barrett" <mbarrett at connect.carleton.ca>
To: <vegmisc at ottawaveg.com>
Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 7:48 PM
Subject: Re: [Vegmisc] Vegan Multi-Vitamins


>i have had problems with extremely low iron counts and take iron
> supplements. if you are interested in taking iron (and i'd recommend it
> if you are in fact low, having low iron is rather debilitating if it
> continues!) then you should ask about the iron they keep behind the
> counter. it's called ferrous something or rather. these pills have more
> iron in them than what you find on the shelves which is a minute amount
> and largely ineffective if you're looking to boost your iron count
> overall and permanently. don't waste your money on the stuff on the
> shelves, what is behind the counter doesn't need a prescription, it's
> just kept there with the nicorette patch and stuff. just a suggestion!
> meredith
>
>
> vaalea wrote:
>
>
>>I think that BOTH veg*ns AND non-veg*ns take multi-vitamins, because
> even if eating healthy, we are not all professional nutritionists, and
> like to take vitamins to fill in any possible gaps in our diet we may
> be missing. I would think that MOST people who buy vitamins are not
> veg*ns, thus they can't accuse the veg*n diet of needing supplementing.
> (Why not ask them how many non-veg*ns they know take vitamins).
>>
>>I personally only occasionally take a vitamin, because it is a bit of a
> pain... and also because I'd like to think even though my diet isn't
> perfect, it is healthy /enough/.... however I did have low iron levels
> a year ago, (is it hereditary? cause meat eaters in my family had this
> problem too.) I haven't taken pills for it (like the doc suggested)...
> I do know what foods have iron in them.. I haven't yet bought iron
> cookware... so I figure popping a vitamin now and then isn't going to
> hurt... and I wouldn't be against doing it everyday if I got into the
> habit....
>>
>>If it's not going to harm us/others, then why not if we want (and it
> may be beneficial)?
>>
>>
>>
>>----- Original Message ----- 
>>  From: Kevin J. Smith
>>  To: vegmisc at ottawaveg.com
>>  Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 4:46 PM
>>  Subject: Re: [Vegmisc] Vegan Multi-Vitamins
>>
>>
>>  My question is, why is everyone wasting their money on vitamins?  Do
> you not eat well?  With the exception of B12 for the vegans among us,
> everything you need is in the food you should be eating.
>>
>>  I am always disappointed in vegetarian/natural food stores that fill
> half of their store with pills.  It is very poor advertising for eating
> "naturally."  I can hear the comments from the vegetarian nay-sayers,
> "See, being vegetarian is not healthy ... look at all the pills you
> have to consume in order to get your proper nutrients."
>>
>>  Should we not be leading by example and demonstrating how healthy it
> is just by eating whole, unprocessed foods?
>>
>>  P.S.
>>  (B12 is added to most soy/rice beverages)
>>
>>
>>  On 11/7/05, Kevin O'Shea <kevin at oshea.ca> wrote:
>>
>>    I buy mine vegan vitamins online - since the company is in BC, I
> don't pay provincial sales tax, and if your order is over $50, shipping
> is free.
>>
>>
>>    Take a look at the following link:
>>
> http://www.canadianvitaminshop.com/cgi-bin/TheVitaminShop.storefront/436f6cbc025694e227414200c149068b/Product/View/5620
>>
>>    I don't see vitamin D3 in the on-line list of ingredients - is this
> something I should be wanting in a vitamin, as a vegan?
>>
>>    Details:
>>    Sisu
>>
>>    VEGI-MINS
>>    90 Tablet  - $21.98
>>
>>    An all natural, vegetarian multiple vitamin and chelated mineral
> daily supplement containing no animal products or sources. Sisu
> Vegi-Mins' low ingredient potency allows each individual to design
> dosages specific to their own personal needs, and the coated, oblong
> tablet is easy to swallow. Due to our busy modern lifestyles, and the
> reduction of vitamin and mineral intake partly due to modern food
> production and handling methods, supplementation with a multiple
> vitamin and mineral complex is critical for optimal health and
> longevity.
>>
>>
>>    Hope this helps,
>>    Kevin
>>
>>    >
>>    >Subject: Re: [Vegmisc] Vegan Multi-Vitamins
>>    >   From: "vaalea" < v at vaalea.com>
>>    >   Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2005 23:14:47 -0500
>>    >     To: <vegmisc at ottawaveg.com>
>>    >
>>    >This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>>    >
>>    >--===============0754998713==
>>    >Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
>>    >       boundary="----=_NextPart_000_17E5_01C5E327.E1E3CE80"
>>    >
>>    >This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>>    >
>>    >------=_NextPart_000_17E5_01C5E327.E1E3CE80
>>    >Content-Type: text/plain;
>>    >       charset="iso-8859-1"
>>    >Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>>    >
>>    >This has been one of my compromises... I get vegetarian ones...
> Natural =
>>    >Factors. .....so I would also be interested if anyone knows of
> vegan =
>>    >ones in Ottawa.
>>    >
>>    >This is an email response I got from Natural Factors April 2004:
>>    >
>>    >Thank-you again for your inquiry regarding Natural Factors Hi
> Potency =
>>    >Multivitamin product. Natural Factors has many different multi
> vitamin =
>>    >products in both tablet and capsule forms, however they  all
> contain =
>>    >vitamin D3 which is sourced from Lanolin (sheep's wool) and not
> suitable =
>>    >for vegans.
>>    >
>>    >Natural Factors is committed to providing quality products and
> services, =
>>    >your feedback is important in achieving this goal.  Thank you for
> your =
>>    >interest and support.
>>    >
>>    >
>>    >W. Fuller
>>    >Customer Service
>>    >Natural Factors Nutritional Products Ltd.
>>    >1-800-663-8900
>>    >E-Mail:  custservice at naturalfactors.com
>>    >
>>    >
>>    >
>>    >
>>    >
>>    >
>>    >  ----- Original Message -----=20
>>    >  From: Karen G.=20
>>    >  To: vegmisc at ottawaveg.com=20
>>    >  Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2005 10:16 PM
>>    >  Subject: [Vegmisc] Vegan Multi-Vitamins
>>    >
>>    >
>>    >  Just wondering if anyone knows of a vegan multi-vitamin
> available in =
>>    >Canada?  I've been buying them from Pangea
> (http://www.veganstore.com/) =
>>    >but it gets expensive paying $US plus S&H plus duty.
>>    >
>>    >  Thanks!
>>    >
>>    >
>>
>>------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -=
>>    >-----
>>    >
>>    >
>>    >  _______________________________________________
>>    >  Vegmisc mailing list
>>    >  Vegmisc at ottawaveg.com
>>    >  http://lists.ottawaveg.com/mailman/listinfo/vegmisc
>>    >
>>    >------=_NextPart_000_17E5_01C5E327.E1E3CE80
>>    >Content-Type: text/html;
>>    >       charset="iso-8859-1"
>>    >Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>>    >
>>    ><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
>>    ><HTML><HEAD>
>>    ><META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
>>    >charset=3Diso-8859-1">
>>    ><META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.2769 " name=3DGENERATOR>
>>    ><STYLE></STYLE>
>>    ></HEAD>
>>    ><BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
>>    ><DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow">This has been one of my
> compromises... =
>>    >I get=20
>>    >vegetarian ones... Natural Factors. .....so I would also be
> interested =
>>    >if anyone=20
>>    >knows of vegan ones in Ottawa.</FONT></DIV>
>>    ><DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow"></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
>>    ><DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow">This is an email response I got
> from =
>>    >Natural=20
>>    >Factors April 2004:</FONT></DIV>
>>    ><DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
>>    ><DIV>Thank-you again for your inquiry regarding Natural Factors Hi
> =
>>    >Potency=20
>>    >Multivitamin product. Natural Factors has many different multi
> vitamin =
>>    >products=20
>>    >in both tablet and capsule forms, however they&nbsp; all contain
> vitamin =
>>    >D3=20
>>    >which is sourced from Lanolin (sheep's wool) and not suitable
> for=20
>>    >vegans.<BR><BR>Natural Factors is committed to providing quality =
>>    >products and=20
>>    >services, your feedback is important in achieving this goal.&nbsp;
> Thank =
>>    >you for=20
>>    >your interest and support.<BR><BR><BR>W. Fuller<BR>Customer =
>>    >Service<BR>Natural=20
>>    >Factors Nutritional Products
> Ltd.<BR>1-800-663-8900<BR>E-Mail:&nbsp; <A=20
>>    >href=3D"">custservice at naturalfactors.com </A><BR></DIV>
>>    ><DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow"></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
>>    ><DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow"></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
>>    ><DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow"></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
>>    ><DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow"></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
>>    ><DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow"></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
>>    ><BLOCKQUOTE=20
>>    >style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
>>    >BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
>>    >  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- 
> </DIV>
>>    >  <DIV=20
>>    >  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
>>    >black"><B>From:</B>=20
>>    >  <A title=3Dkaren_g38 at hotmail.com =
>>    >href=3D"mailto:karen_g38 at hotmail.com">Karen=20
>>    >  G.</A> </DIV>
>>    >  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
>>    >title=3Dvegmisc at ottawaveg.com=20
>>    >  href=3D"mailto:vegmisc at ottawaveg.com">vegmisc at ottawaveg.com</A>
> </DIV>
>>    >  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, November
> 06, 2005 =
>>    >10:16=20
>>    >  PM</DIV>
>>    >  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [Vegmisc]
> Vegan=20
>>    >  Multi-Vitamins</DIV>
>>    >  <DIV><BR></DIV>
>>    >  <DIV>
>>    >  <DIV class=3DRTE>Just wondering if anyone knows of a vegan =
>>    >multi-vitamin=20
>>    >  available in Canada?&nbsp; I've been buying them from Pangea
> (<A=20
>>    >
> href=3D"http://www.veganstore.com/">http://www.veganstore.com/</A>) =
>>    >but it gets=20
>>    >  expensive paying $US plus S&amp;H plus duty.</DIV>
>>    >  <DIV class=3DRTE>&nbsp;</DIV>
>>    >  <DIV class=3DRTE>Thanks!</DIV></DIV>
>>    >  <P>
>>    >  <HR>
>>    >
>>    >
> <P></P>_______________________________________________<BR>Vegmisc =
>>    >mailing=20
>>    >  list<BR><A =
>>
>>href=3D"mailto:Vegmisc at ottawaveg.com">Vegmisc at ottawaveg.com</A><BR><A=20
>
>>    >  =
>>
>>href=3D"http://lists.ottawaveg.com/mailman/listinfo/vegmisc">http://list
> s=
>>
>>..ottawaveg.com/mailman/listinfo/vegmisc</A><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HT
> ML=
>>    >>
>>    >
>>    >------=_NextPart_000_17E5_01C5E327.E1E3CE80--
>>    >
>>    >
>>    >--===============0754998713==
>>    >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>    >MIME-Version: 1.0
>>    >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>>    >Content-Disposition: inline
>>    >
>>    >_______________________________________________
>>    >Vegmisc mailing list
>>    >Vegmisc at ottawaveg.com
>>    > http://lists.ottawaveg.com/mailman/listinfo/vegmisc
>>    >
>>    >--===============0754998713==--
>>
>>    _______________________________________________
>>    Vegmisc mailing list
>>    Vegmisc at ottawaveg.com
>>    http://lists.ottawaveg.com/mailman/listinfo/vegmisc
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ------
>>
>>
>>  _______________________________________________
>>  Vegmisc mailing list
>>  Vegmisc at ottawaveg.com
>>  http://lists.ottawaveg.com/mailman/listinfo/vegmisc
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>>Vegmisc mailing list
>>Vegmisc at ottawaveg.com
>>http://lists.ottawaveg.com/mailman/listinfo/vegmisc
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Vegmisc mailing list
> Vegmisc at ottawaveg.com
> http://lists.ottawaveg.com/mailman/listinfo/vegmisc
> 



From juliusmartov at hotmail.com  Tue Nov  8 02:36:16 2005
From: juliusmartov at hotmail.com (Vincent Guihan)
Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2005 21:36:16 -0500
Subject: [Vegmisc] Vegan Multi-Vitamins
Message-ID: <BAY108-F20780B62D6E2C5F129F12FC0640@phx.gbl>

>Should we not be leading by example and demonstrating how healthy it is 
>just by eating whole, >unprocessed foods?

I don't take vitamins and I eat a very diverse diet (because I think it's 
nutritionally superior to vitamins).  However, I think vegans can also lead 
by example by treating our health seriously, and for some, that means taking 
a multivitamin if they're concerned about defficiency, seeing a doctor 
regularly, exercising, etc.  I think the best position for vegans to take is 
to remind everyone they know that /everyone/ should take his/her health 
seriouly, including themselves.

Vegans aren't immune to deficiencies that can be caused by poor diet (even 
if it's all whole, unprocessed food if the food variety isn't substantial), 
genetic predispositions (blocking absorption), poor food combining, depleted 
soil (if the soil is nutrient-depleted due to factory farming practices, the 
food will be as well), and so on.  Lots of processed foods are also quite 
healthy (notably tofu, fortified soymilk, etc.) and a mantra of only whole, 
unprocessed food doesn't guarrantee the best nutrition.

I think, in part, that the conventional wisdom among vegans that deficiency 
isn't a serious concern yields vegans who run the risk of serious health 
problems, even on a whole foods diet.  And at least in my opinion, vegans 
who end up with iron deficiency, B12 defiency, etc., affect public opinion 
about the healthiness of a vegan diet much more than whether or not someone 
takes a multivitamin.

Vincent




From v at vaalea.com  Tue Nov  8 05:02:40 2005
From: v at vaalea.com (vaalea)
Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2005 00:02:40 -0500
Subject: [Vegmisc] Vegan Multi-Vitamins
References: <20051108015100.54353.qmail@web32813.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <008501c5e421$a5a2a2c0$6b00a8c0@v>

(Great post Vincent.)

My science and medicine teacher in college/uni also was of the opinion that 
vitamins and such were useless.
It is good to be reminded that it is very important not to overdose when 
taking supplements... and also that doctors and "professionals" are not gods 
with all the correct answers.... in fact (most)doctors get very little 
training in nutrition. Always good to try to teach yourself a little on the 
net before appointments etc. when possible... then ask questions.

For vegans that cut out things like refined sugar (bone char process) out of 
their diet... or become Raw vegans or those who track thier nutrition and 
make sure they are getting exactly the proper nutrition.... all I can say is 
"Good for you." But not everyone can attain every ideal.

Thanks for the information Marie-Jos?e! I will be looking further into some 
of those things, and keeping them in mind when I look at vitamins (they all 
have different doses of different things it seems like).


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Marie-Jos?e Patry" <mjpatry at yahoo.com>
To: <vegmisc at ottawaveg.com>
Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 8:51 PM
Subject: Re: [Vegmisc] Vegan Multi-Vitamins


>I had the chance to go to the World Vegetarian Fair in
> Toronto in 2000 and went to a lecture called "What you
> should know about vitamins".  I can't remember the
> name of the doctor or everything he was saying but I
> never took a vitamin pill since.  According to him, we
> do more damage to our body by taking those pills.  I
> did my own research and I have to say when you start
> reading studies that are not done by the "pill
> industry", we should stick to broccoli and apples if
> we want to be healthy!
> I just did a quick search right now and copied bellow
> some of my finding (this is from different internet
> sites):
>
> "...A further reason to try to avoid looking for the
> magic results of mega doses of vitamins is that they
> can have toxic effects. Some people think that because
> some is good, more is better, which is not necessarily
> the case. This is particularly true with vitamins that
> are fat soluble like vitamin A and will be stored up
> in the liver. This can eventually reach toxic levels
> and can damage the liver. Vitamin C will just be
> secreted with the urine but it can cause diarrhea at
> levels of 2000 mg a day, which is lower than the
> amount many people take to stave off colds..."
>
> "...The notion that antioxidant vitamins could provide
> a safe, convenient way to protect the heart from
> disease appears to have hit a pothole. Instead of
> protecting the heart, a new study suggests that the
> vitamins, such as E, C, and beta carotene, could raise
> the production by the liver of the so-called bad form
> of cholesterol, which transports cholesterol into the
> artery walls..."
>
> "...Our study results do not support the use of
> high-dose vitamin E supplements. If people are taking
> a multivitamin, they should make sure it contains no
> more than a low dose of vitamin E," said study lead
> author and internist Edgar R. Miller III, M.D., Ph.D.,
> associate professor of medicine at The Johns Hopkins
> University School of Medicine. "A lot of people take
> vitamins because they believe it will benefit their
> health in the long term and prolong life. But our
> study shows that use of high-dose vitamin E
> supplements certainly did not prolong life, but was
> associated with a higher risk of death...."
>
> "...Vitamin E capsules, used as supplements, typically
> contain 400 IU to 800 IU. The study results indicated
> that these high-dose supplements were associated with
> a higher risk of death..."
>
> The information I found is endless.  Go have a look
> but remember to check the source when you need
> information about vitamins. This is a big money
> industry, they want you to buy and they know how to
> sale their stuff. Even if doctors or dietitians say it
> is good for you it does not mean it is.  Well, I guess
> you all know that since most doctors and dietitians
> believe we should drink milk and eat red meat!
>
> Marie
>
> --- vaalea <v at vaalea.com> wrote:
>
>> I think that BOTH veg*ns AND non-veg*ns take
>> multi-vitamins, because even if eating healthy, we
>> are not all professional nutritionists, and like to
>> take vitamins to fill in any possible gaps in our
>> diet we may be missing. I would think that MOST
>> people who buy vitamins are not veg*ns, thus they
>> can't accuse the veg*n diet of needing
>> supplementing. (Why not ask them how many non-veg*ns
>> they know take vitamins).
>>
>> I personally only occasionally take a vitamin,
>> because it is a bit of a pain... and also because
>> I'd like to think even though my diet isn't perfect,
>> it is healthy /enough/.... however I did have low
>> iron levels a year ago, (is it hereditary? cause
>> meat eaters in my family had this problem too.) I
>> haven't taken pills for it (like the doc
>> suggested)... I do know what foods have iron in
>> them.. I haven't yet bought iron cookware... so I
>> figure popping a vitamin now and then isn't going to
>> hurt... and I wouldn't be against doing it everyday
>> if I got into the habit....
>>
>> If it's not going to harm us/others, then why not if
>> we want (and it may be beneficial)?
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>   From: Kevin J. Smith
>>   To: vegmisc at ottawaveg.com
>>   Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 4:46 PM
>>   Subject: Re: [Vegmisc] Vegan Multi-Vitamins
>>
>>
>>   My question is, why is everyone wasting their
>> money on vitamins?  Do you not eat well?  With the
>> exception of B12 for the vegans among us, everything
>> you need is in the food you should be eating.
>>
>>   I am always disappointed in vegetarian/natural
>> food stores that fill half of their store with
>> pills.  It is very poor advertising for eating
>> "naturally."  I can hear the comments from the
>> vegetarian nay-sayers, "See, being vegetarian is not
>> healthy ... look at all the pills you have to
>> consume in order to get your proper nutrients."
>>
>>   Should we not be leading by example and
>> demonstrating how healthy it is just by eating
>> whole, unprocessed foods?
>>
>>   P.S.
>>   (B12 is added to most soy/rice beverages)
>>
>>
>>   On 11/7/05, Kevin O'Shea <kevin at oshea.ca> wrote:
>>
>>     I buy mine vegan vitamins online - since the
>> company is in BC, I don't pay provincial sales tax,
>> and if your order is over $50, shipping is free.
>>
>>
>>     Take a look at the following link:
>>
>>
> http://www.canadianvitaminshop.com/cgi-bin/TheVitaminShop.storefront/436f6cbc025694e227414200c149068b/Product/View/5620
>>
>>
>>     I don't see vitamin D3 in the on-line list of
>> ingredients - is this something I should be wanting
>> in a vitamin, as a vegan?
>>
>>     Details:
>>     Sisu
>>
>>     VEGI-MINS
>>     90 Tablet  - $21.98
>>
>>     An all natural, vegetarian multiple vitamin and
>> chelated mineral daily supplement containing no
>> animal products or sources. Sisu Vegi-Mins' low
>> ingredient potency allows each individual to design
>> dosages specific to their own personal needs, and
>> the coated, oblong tablet is easy to swallow. Due to
>> our busy modern lifestyles, and the reduction of
>> vitamin and mineral intake partly due to modern food
>> production and handling methods, supplementation
>> with a multiple vitamin and mineral complex is
>> critical for optimal health and longevity.
>>
>>
>>     Hope this helps,
>>     Kevin
>>
>>     >
>>     >Subject: Re: [Vegmisc] Vegan Multi-Vitamins
>>     >   From: "vaalea" < v at vaalea.com>
>>     >   Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2005 23:14:47 -0500
>>     >     To: <vegmisc at ottawaveg.com>
>>     >
>>     >This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>>     >
>>     >--===============0754998713==
>>     >Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
>>     >
>> boundary="----=_NextPart_000_17E5_01C5E327.E1E3CE80"
>>     >
>>     >This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>>     >
>>     >------=_NextPart_000_17E5_01C5E327.E1E3CE80
>>     >Content-Type: text/plain;
>>     >       charset="iso-8859-1"
>>     >Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>>     >
>>     >This has been one of my compromises... I get
>> vegetarian ones... Natural =
>>     >Factors. .....so I would also be interested if
>> anyone knows of vegan =
>>     >ones in Ottawa.
>>     >
>>     >This is an email response I got from Natural
>> Factors April 2004:
>>     >
>>     >Thank-you again for your inquiry regarding
>> Natural Factors Hi Potency =
>>     >Multivitamin product. Natural Factors has many
>> different multi vitamin =
>>     >products in both tablet and capsule forms,
>> however they  all contain =
>>     >vitamin D3 which is sourced from Lanolin
>> (sheep's wool) and not suitable =
>>     >for vegans.
>>     >
>>     >Natural Factors is committed to providing
>> quality products and services, =
>>     >your feedback is important in achieving this
>> goal.  Thank you for your =
>>     >interest and support.
>>     >
>>     >
>>     >W. Fuller
>>     >Customer Service
>>     >Natural Factors Nutritional Products Ltd.
>>     >1-800-663-8900
>>     >E-Mail:  custservice at naturalfactors.com
>>     >
>>     >
>>     >
>>     >
>>     >
>>     >
>>     >  ----- Original Message -----=20
>>     >  From: Karen G.=20
>>     >  To: vegmisc at ottawaveg.com=20
>>     >  Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2005 10:16 PM
>>     >  Subject: [Vegmisc] Vegan Multi-Vitamins
>>     >
>>     >
>>     >  Just wondering if anyone knows of a vegan
>> multi-vitamin available in =
>>     >Canada?  I've been buying them from Pangea
>> (http://www.veganstore.com/) =
>>     >but it gets expensive paying $US plus S&H plus
>> duty.
>>     >
>>     >  Thanks!
>>     >
>>     >
>>
>>
>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
>>     >-----
>>     >
>>     >
>>     >
>> _______________________________________________
>>     >  Vegmisc mailing list
>>     >  Vegmisc at ottawaveg.com
>>     >
>> http://lists.ottawaveg.com/mailman/listinfo/vegmisc
>>     >
>>     >------=_NextPart_000_17E5_01C5E327.E1E3CE80
>>     >Content-Type: text/html;
>>     >       charset="iso-8859-1"
>>     >Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>>     >
>>     ><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0
>> Transitional//EN">
>>     ><HTML><HEAD>
>>     ><META http-equiv=3DContent-Type
>> content=3D"text/html; =
>>     >charset=3Diso-8859-1">
>>     ><META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.2769 "
>> name=3DGENERATOR>
>>     ><STYLE></STYLE>
>>     ></HEAD>
>>     ><BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
>>     ><DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow">This has been
>> one of my compromises... =
>>     >I get=20
>>     >vegetarian ones... Natural Factors. .....so I
>> would also be interested =
>>
> === message truncated ===>
> _______________________________________________
>> Vegmisc mailing list
>> Vegmisc at ottawaveg.com
>> http://lists.ottawaveg.com/mailman/listinfo/vegmisc
>>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
> http://mail.yahoo.com
> _______________________________________________
> Vegmisc mailing list
> Vegmisc at ottawaveg.com
> http://lists.ottawaveg.com/mailman/listinfo/vegmisc
> 



From v at vaalea.com  Tue Nov  8 05:08:31 2005
From: v at vaalea.com (vaalea)
Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2005 00:08:31 -0500
Subject: [Vegmisc] Loblaws sale and vitamin links.
References: <20051108015100.54353.qmail@web32813.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<008501c5e421$a5a2a2c0$6b00a8c0@v>
Message-ID: <008801c5e422$76842580$6b00a8c0@v>

I forgot to add these links I randomly googled about vitamins (pros, cons, 
overdose):
http://www.diynetwork.com/diy/lh_general_info/article/0,2041,DIY_14040_2275294,00.html
http://www.balancemindbodysoul.com/foodfacts-2000-02.html


Loblaws has their Yves burgers, and chikn burgers on sale for 1.99 for their 
2-patty package.
Also, the Yves beef tender strips (??) are on sale for 3.49/box. Good for 
fajitas. 



From mbarrett at connect.carleton.ca  Tue Nov  8 18:42:44 2005
From: mbarrett at connect.carleton.ca (Meredith Barrett)
Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2005 13:42:44 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Vegmisc] Vegan Multi-Vitamins
Message-ID: <1732508.1131475364431.JavaMail.mbarrett@connect.carleton.ca>


no you're right it doesn't kill you, it just exhausts you so you're 
useless, if your iron gets low enough.

vaalea wrote:


>Yeah, the doc wrote that name down and told me to get it.. but I 
didn't. =0|
>
>The one thing about iron is low iron doesn't KILL you, but you can 
overdose 
>and die on it.... or at least that is what I seem to remember reading 
last 
>yearish... I could be wrong.
>
>I had "good intentions" of boosting it naturally that I didn't want to 
>bother with pills... but yeah... I should at least try I suppose.
>
>
>
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "Meredith Barrett" <mbarrett at connect.carleton.ca>
>To: <vegmisc at ottawaveg.com>
>Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 7:48 PM
>Subject: Re: [Vegmisc] Vegan Multi-Vitamins
>
>
>>i have had problems with extremely low iron counts and take iron
>> supplements. if you are interested in taking iron (and i'd recommend it
>> if you are in fact low, having low iron is rather debilitating if it
>> continues!) then you should ask about the iron they keep behind the
>> counter. it's called ferrous something or rather. these pills have more
>> iron in them than what you find on the shelves which is a minute amount
>> and largely ineffective if you're looking to boost your iron count
>> overall and permanently. don't waste your money on the stuff on the
>> shelves, what is behind the counter doesn't need a prescription, it's
>> just kept there with the nicorette patch and stuff. just a suggestion!
>> meredith
>>
>>
>> vaalea wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I think that BOTH veg*ns AND non-veg*ns take multi-vitamins, because
>> even if eating healthy, we are not all professional nutritionists, and
>> like to take vitamins to fill in any possible gaps in our diet we may
>> be missing. I would think that MOST people who buy vitamins are not
>> veg*ns, thus they can't accuse the veg*n diet of needing supplementing.
>> (Why not ask them how many non-veg*ns they know take vitamins).
>>>
>>>I personally only occasionally take a vitamin, because it is a bit of a
>> pain... and also because I'd like to think even though my diet isn't
>> perfect, it is healthy /enough/.... however I did have low iron levels
>> a year ago, (is it hereditary? cause meat eaters in my family had this
>> problem too.) I haven't taken pills for it (like the doc suggested)...
>> I do know what foods have iron in them.. I haven't yet bought iron
>> cookware... so I figure popping a vitamin now and then isn't going to
>> hurt... and I wouldn't be against doing it everyday if I got into the
>> habit....
>>>
>>>If it's not going to harm us/others, then why not if we want (and it
>> may be beneficial)?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>----- Original Message ----- 
>>>  From: Kevin J. Smith
>>>  To: vegmisc at ottawaveg.com
>>>  Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 4:46 PM
>>>  Subject: Re: [Vegmisc] Vegan Multi-Vitamins
>>>
>>>
>>>  My question is, why is everyone wasting their money on vitamins?  Do
>> you not eat well?  With the exception of B12 for the vegans among us,
>> everything you need is in the food you should be eating.
>>>
>>>  I am always disappointed in vegetarian/natural food stores that fill
>> half of their store with pills.  It is very poor advertising for eating
>> "naturally."  I can hear the comments from the vegetarian nay-sayers,
>> "See, being vegetarian is not healthy ... look at all the pills you
>> have to consume in order to get your proper nutrients."
>>>
>>>  Should we not be leading by example and demonstrating how healthy it
>> is just by eating whole, unprocessed foods?
>>>
>>>  P.S.
>>>  (B12 is added to most soy/rice beverages)
>>>
>>>
>>>  On 11/7/05, Kevin O'Shea <kevin at oshea.ca> wrote:
>>>
>>>    I buy mine vegan vitamins online - since the company is in BC, I
>> don't pay provincial sales tax, and if your order is over $50, shipping
>> is free.
>>>
>>>
>>>    Take a look at the following link:
>>>
>> 
http://www.canadianvitaminshop.com/cgi-bin/TheVitaminShop.storefront/436f6cbc025694e227414200c149068b/Product/View/5620
>>>
>>>    I don't see vitamin D3 in the on-line list of ingredients - is this
>> something I should be wanting in a vitamin, as a vegan?
>>>
>>>    Details:
>>>    Sisu
>>>
>>>    VEGI-MINS
>>>    90 Tablet  - $21.98
>>>
>>>    An all natural, vegetarian multiple vitamin and chelated mineral
>> daily supplement containing no animal products or sources. Sisu
>> Vegi-Mins' low ingredient potency allows each individual to design
>> dosages specific to their own personal needs, and the coated, oblong
>> tablet is easy to swallow. Due to our busy modern lifestyles, and the
>> reduction of vitamin and mineral intake partly due to modern food
>> production and handling methods, supplementation with a multiple
>> vitamin and mineral complex is critical for optimal health and
>> longevity.
>>>
>>>
>>>    Hope this helps,
>>>    Kevin
>>>
>>>    >
>>>    >Subject: Re: [Vegmisc] Vegan Multi-Vitamins
>>>    >   From: "vaalea" < v at vaalea.com>
>>>    >   Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2005 23:14:47 -0500
>>>    >     To: <vegmisc at ottawaveg.com>
>>>    >
>>>    >This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>>>    >
>>>    >--===============0754998713==
>>>    >Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
>>>    >       boundary="----=_NextPart_000_17E5_01C5E327.E1E3CE80"
>>>    >
>>>    >This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>>>    >
>>>    >------=_NextPart_000_17E5_01C5E327.E1E3CE80
>>>    >Content-Type: text/plain;
>>>    >       charset="iso-8859-1"
>>>    >Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>>>    >
>>>    >This has been one of my compromises... I get vegetarian ones...
>> Natural =
>>>    >Factors. .....so I would also be interested if anyone knows of
>> vegan =
>>>    >ones in Ottawa.
>>>    >
>>>    >This is an email response I got from Natural Factors April 2004:
>>>    >
>>>    >Thank-you again for your inquiry regarding Natural Factors Hi
>> Potency =
>>>    >Multivitamin product. Natural Factors has many different multi
>> vitamin =
>>>    >products in both tablet and capsule forms, however they  all
>> contain =
>>>    >vitamin D3 which is sourced from Lanolin (sheep's wool) and not
>> suitable =
>>>    >for vegans.
>>>    >
>>>    >Natural Factors is committed to providing quality products and
>> services, =
>>>    >your feedback is important in achieving this goal.  Thank you for
>> your =
>>>    >interest and support.
>>>    >
>>>    >
>>>    >W. Fuller
>>>    >Customer Service
>>>    >Natural Factors Nutritional Products Ltd.
>>>    >1-800-663-8900
>>>    >E-Mail:  custservice at naturalfactors.com
>>>    >
>>>    >
>>>    >
>>>    >
>>>    >
>>>    >
>>>    >  ----- Original Message -----=20
>>>    >  From: Karen G.=20
>>>    >  To: vegmisc at ottawaveg.com=20
>>>    >  Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2005 10:16 PM
>>>    >  Subject: [Vegmisc] Vegan Multi-Vitamins
>>>    >
>>>    >
>>>    >  Just wondering if anyone knows of a vegan multi-vitamin
>> available in =
>>>    >Canada?  I've been buying them from Pangea
>> (http://www.veganstore.com/) =
>>>    >but it gets expensive paying $US plus S&H plus duty.
>>>    >
>>>    >  Thanks!
>>>    >
>>>    >
>>>
>>>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> -=
>>>    >-----
>>>    >
>>>    >
>>>    >  _______________________________________________
>>>    >  Vegmisc mailing list
>>>    >  Vegmisc at ottawaveg.com
>>>    >  http://lists.ottawaveg.com/mailman/listinfo/vegmisc
>>>    >
>>>    >------=_NextPart_000_17E5_01C5E327.E1E3CE80
>>>    >Content-Type: text/html;
>>>    >       charset="iso-8859-1"
>>>    >Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>>>    >
>>>    ><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
>>>    ><HTML><HEAD>
>>>    ><META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
>>>    >charset=3Diso-8859-1">
>>>    ><META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.2769 " name=3DGENERATOR>
>>>    ><STYLE></STYLE>
>>>    ></HEAD>
>>>    ><BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
>>>    ><DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow">This has been one of my
>> compromises... =
>>>    >I get=20
>>>    >vegetarian ones... Natural Factors. .....so I would also be
>> interested =
>>>    >if anyone=20
>>>    >knows of vegan ones in Ottawa.</FONT></DIV>
>>>    ><DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow"></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
>>>    ><DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow">This is an email response I got
>> from =
>>>    >Natural=20
>>>    >Factors April 2004:</FONT></DIV>
>>>    ><DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
>>>    ><DIV>Thank-you again for your inquiry regarding Natural Factors Hi
>> =
>>>    >Potency=20
>>>    >Multivitamin product. Natural Factors has many different multi
>> vitamin =
>>>    >products=20
>>>    >in both tablet and capsule forms, however they&nbsp; all contain
>> vitamin =
>>>    >D3=20
>>>    >which is sourced from Lanolin (sheep's wool) and not suitable
>> for=20
>>>    >vegans.<BR><BR>Natural Factors is committed to providing quality =
>>>    >products and=20
>>>    >services, your feedback is important in achieving this goal.&nbsp;
>> Thank =
>>>    >you for=20
>>>    >your interest and support.<BR><BR><BR>W. Fuller<BR>Customer =
>>>    >Service<BR>Natural=20
>>>    >Factors Nutritional Products
>> Ltd.<BR>1-800-663-8900<BR>E-Mail:&nbsp; <A=20
>>>    >href=3D"">custservice at naturalfactors.com </A><BR></DIV>
>>>    ><DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow"></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
>>>    ><DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow"></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
>>>    ><DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow"></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
>>>    ><DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow"></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
>>>    ><DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow"></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
>>>    ><BLOCKQUOTE=20
>>>    >style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
>>>    >BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
>>>    >  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- 
>> </DIV>
>>>    >  <DIV=20
>>>    >  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
>>>    >black"><B>From:</B>=20
>>>    >  <A title=3Dkaren_g38 at hotmail.com =
>>>    >href=3D"mailto:karen_g38 at hotmail.com">Karen=20
>>>    >  G.</A> </DIV>
>>>    >  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
>>>    >title=3Dvegmisc at ottawaveg.com=20
>>>    >  href=3D"mailto:vegmisc at ottawaveg.com">vegmisc at ottawaveg.com</A>
>> </DIV>
>>>    >  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, November
>> 06, 2005 =
>>>    >10:16=20
>>>    >  PM</DIV>
>>>    >  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [Vegmisc]
>> Vegan=20
>>>    >  Multi-Vitamins</DIV>
>>>    >  <DIV><BR></DIV>
>>>    >  <DIV>
>>>    >  <DIV class=3DRTE>Just wondering if anyone knows of a vegan =
>>>    >multi-vitamin=20
>>>    >  available in Canada?&nbsp; I've been buying them from Pangea
>> (<A=20
>>>    >
>> href=3D"http://www.veganstore.com/">http://www.veganstore.com/</A>) =
>>>    >but it gets=20
>>>    >  expensive paying $US plus S&amp;H plus duty.</DIV>
>>>    >  <DIV class=3DRTE>&nbsp;</DIV>
>>>    >  <DIV class=3DRTE>Thanks!</DIV></DIV>
>>>    >  <P>
>>>    >  <HR>
>>>    >
>>>    >
>> <P></P>_______________________________________________<BR>Vegmisc =
>>>    >mailing=20
>>>    >  list<BR><A =
>>>
>>>href=3D"mailto:Vegmisc at ottawaveg.com">Vegmisc at ottawaveg.com</A><BR><A=20
>>
>>>    >  =
>>>
>>>href=3D"http://lists.ottawaveg.com/mailman/listinfo/vegmisc">http://list
>> s=
>>>
>>>..ottawaveg.com/mailman/listinfo/vegmisc</A><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HT
>> ML=
>>>    >>
>>>    >
>>>    >------=_NextPart_000_17E5_01C5E327.E1E3CE80--
>>>    >
>>>    >
>>>    >--===============0754998713==
>>>    >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>>    >MIME-Version: 1.0
>>>    >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>>>    >Content-Disposition: inline
>>>    >
>>>    >_______________________________________________
>>>    >Vegmisc mailing list
>>>    >Vegmisc at ottawaveg.com
>>>    > http://lists.ottawaveg.com/mailman/listinfo/vegmisc
>>>    >
>>>    >--===============0754998713==--
>>>
>>>    _______________________________________________
>>>    Vegmisc mailing list
>>>    Vegmisc at ottawaveg.com
>>>    http://lists.ottawaveg.com/mailman/listinfo/vegmisc
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> ------
>>>
>>>
>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>  Vegmisc mailing list
>>>  Vegmisc at ottawaveg.com
>>>  http://lists.ottawaveg.com/mailman/listinfo/vegmisc
>>>
>>
>>
>> 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>>Vegmisc mailing list
>>>Vegmisc at ottawaveg.com
>>>http://lists.ottawaveg.com/mailman/listinfo/vegmisc
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Vegmisc mailing list
>> Vegmisc at ottawaveg.com
>> http://lists.ottawaveg.com/mailman/listinfo/vegmisc
>> 
>
>_______________________________________________
>Vegmisc mailing list
>Vegmisc at ottawaveg.com
>http://lists.ottawaveg.com/mailman/listinfo/vegmisc
>


From human at magma.ca  Thu Nov 10 04:44:39 2005
From: human at magma.ca (human)
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2005 23:44:39 -0500
Subject: [Vegmisc] Vegan Multi-Vitamins
References: <20051108015100.54353.qmail@web32813.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<008501c5e421$a5a2a2c0$6b00a8c0@v>
Message-ID: <002501c5e5b1$787bd280$6401a8c0@uxmal>

i agree that vitamins don't necessarily help: proper food is best !
and sunshine and excercise.

these days semi-regularly i do take on occasion "SISU Vegi Mins" that are 
available locally.
generally SISU is an interesting brand with good products.

michael


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "vaalea" <v at vaalea.com>
To: <vegmisc at ottawaveg.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2005 12:02 AM
Subject: Re: [Vegmisc] Vegan Multi-Vitamins


> (Great post Vincent.)
>
> My science and medicine teacher in college/uni also was of the opinion 
> that vitamins and such were useless.
> It is good to be reminded that it is very important not to overdose when 
> taking supplements... and also that doctors and "professionals" are not 
> gods with all the correct answers.... in fact (most)doctors get very 
> little training in nutrition. Always good to try to teach yourself a 
> little on the net before appointments etc. when possible... then ask 
> questions.
>
> For vegans that cut out things like refined sugar (bone char process) out 
> of their diet... or become Raw vegans or those who track thier nutrition 
> and make sure they are getting exactly the proper nutrition.... all I can 
> say is "Good for you." But not everyone can attain every ideal.
>
> Thanks for the information Marie-Jos?e! I will be looking further into 
> some of those things, and keeping them in mind when I look at vitamins 
> (they all have different doses of different things it seems like).
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Marie-Jos?e Patry" <mjpatry at yahoo.com>
> To: <vegmisc at ottawaveg.com>
> Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 8:51 PM
> Subject: Re: [Vegmisc] Vegan Multi-Vitamins
>
>
>>I had the chance to go to the World Vegetarian Fair in
>> Toronto in 2000 and went to a lecture called "What you
>> should know about vitamins".  I can't remember the
>> name of the doctor or everything he was saying but I
>> never took a vitamin pill since.  According to him, we
>> do more damage to our body by taking those pills.  I
>> did my own research and I have to say when you start
>> reading studies that are not done by the "pill
>> industry", we should stick to broccoli and apples if
>> we want to be healthy!
>> I just did a quick search right now and copied bellow
>> some of my finding (this is from different internet
>> sites):
>>
>> "...A further reason to try to avoid looking for the
>> magic results of mega doses of vitamins is that they
>> can have toxic effects. Some people think that because
>> some is good, more is better, which is not necessarily
>> the case. This is particularly true with vitamins that
>> are fat soluble like vitamin A and will be stored up
>> in the liver. This can eventually reach toxic levels
>> and can damage the liver. Vitamin C will just be
>> secreted with the urine but it can cause diarrhea at
>> levels of 2000 mg a day, which is lower than the
>> amount many people take to stave off colds..."
>>
>> "...The notion that antioxidant vitamins could provide
>> a safe, convenient way to protect the heart from
>> disease appears to have hit a pothole. Instead of
>> protecting the heart, a new study suggests that the
>> vitamins, such as E, C, and beta carotene, could raise
>> the production by the liver of the so-called bad form
>> of cholesterol, which transports cholesterol into the
>> artery walls..."
>>
>> "...Our study results do not support the use of
>> high-dose vitamin E supplements. If people are taking
>> a multivitamin, they should make sure it contains no
>> more than a low dose of vitamin E," said study lead
>> author and internist Edgar R. Miller III, M.D., Ph.D.,
>> associate professor of medicine at The Johns Hopkins
>> University School of Medicine. "A lot of people take
>> vitamins because they believe it will benefit their
>> health in the long term and prolong life. But our
>> study shows that use of high-dose vitamin E
>> supplements certainly did not prolong life, but was
>> associated with a higher risk of death...."
>>
>> "...Vitamin E capsules, used as supplements, typically
>> contain 400 IU to 800 IU. The study results indicated
>> that these high-dose supplements were associated with
>> a higher risk of death..."
>>
>> The information I found is endless.  Go have a look
>> but remember to check the source when you need
>> information about vitamins. This is a big money
>> industry, they want you to buy and they know how to
>> sale their stuff. Even if doctors or dietitians say it
>> is good for you it does not mean it is.  Well, I guess
>> you all know that since most doctors and dietitians
>> believe we should drink milk and eat red meat!
>>
>> Marie
>>
>> --- vaalea <v at vaalea.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I think that BOTH veg*ns AND non-veg*ns take
>>> multi-vitamins, because even if eating healthy, we
>>> are not all professional nutritionists, and like to
>>> take vitamins to fill in any possible gaps in our
>>> diet we may be missing. I would think that MOST
>>> people who buy vitamins are not veg*ns, thus they
>>> can't accuse the veg*n diet of needing
>>> supplementing. (Why not ask them how many non-veg*ns
>>> they know take vitamins).
>>>
>>> I personally only occasionally take a vitamin,
>>> because it is a bit of a pain... and also because
>>> I'd like to think even though my diet isn't perfect,
>>> it is healthy /enough/.... however I did have low
>>> iron levels a year ago, (is it hereditary? cause
>>> meat eaters in my family had this problem too.) I
>>> haven't taken pills for it (like the doc
>>> suggested)... I do know what foods have iron in
>>> them.. I haven't yet bought iron cookware... so I
>>> figure popping a vitamin now and then isn't going to
>>> hurt... and I wouldn't be against doing it everyday
>>> if I got into the habit....
>>>
>>> If it's not going to harm us/others, then why not if
>>> we want (and it may be beneficial)?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>   From: Kevin J. Smith
>>>   To: vegmisc at ottawaveg.com
>>>   Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 4:46 PM
>>>   Subject: Re: [Vegmisc] Vegan Multi-Vitamins
>>>
>>>
>>>   My question is, why is everyone wasting their
>>> money on vitamins?  Do you not eat well?  With the
>>> exception of B12 for the vegans among us, everything
>>> you need is in the food you should be eating.
>>>
>>>   I am always disappointed in vegetarian/natural
>>> food stores that fill half of their store with
>>> pills.  It is very poor advertising for eating
>>> "naturally."  I can hear the comments from the
>>> vegetarian nay-sayers, "See, being vegetarian is not
>>> healthy ... look at all the pills you have to
>>> consume in order to get your proper nutrients."
>>>
>>>   Should we not be leading by example and
>>> demonstrating how healthy it is just by eating
>>> whole, unprocessed foods?
>>>
>>>   P.S.
>>>   (B12 is added to most soy/rice beverages)
>>>
>>>
>>>   On 11/7/05, Kevin O'Shea <kevin at oshea.ca> wrote:
>>>
>>>     I buy mine vegan vitamins online - since the
>>> company is in BC, I don't pay provincial sales tax,
>>> and if your order is over $50, shipping is free.
>>>
>>>
>>>     Take a look at the following link:
>>>
>>>
>> http://www.canadianvitaminshop.com/cgi-bin/TheVitaminShop.storefront/436f6cbc025694e227414200c149068b/Product/View/5620
>>>
>>>
>>>     I don't see vitamin D3 in the on-line list of
>>> ingredients - is this something I should be wanting
>>> in a vitamin, as a vegan?
>>>
>>>     Details:
>>>     Sisu
>>>
>>>     VEGI-MINS
>>>     90 Tablet  - $21.98
>>>
>>>     An all natural, vegetarian multiple vitamin and
>>> chelated mineral daily supplement containing no
>>> animal products or sources. Sisu Vegi-Mins' low
>>> ingredient potency allows each individual to design
>>> dosages specific to their own personal needs, and
>>> the coated, oblong tablet is easy to swallow. Due to
>>> our busy modern lifestyles, and the reduction of
>>> vitamin and mineral intake partly due to modern food
>>> production and handling methods, supplementation
>>> with a multiple vitamin and mineral complex is
>>> critical for optimal health and longevity.
>>>
>>>
>>>     Hope this helps,
>>>     Kevin
>>>
>>>     >
>>>     >Subject: Re: [Vegmisc] Vegan Multi-Vitamins
>>>     >   From: "vaalea" < v at vaalea.com>
>>>     >   Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2005 23:14:47 -0500
>>>     >     To: <vegmisc at ottawaveg.com>
>>>     >
>>>     >This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>>>     >
>>>     >--===============0754998713==
>>>     >Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
>>>     >
>>> boundary="----=_NextPart_000_17E5_01C5E327.E1E3CE80"
>>>     >
>>>     >This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>>>     >
>>>     >------=_NextPart_000_17E5_01C5E327.E1E3CE80
>>>     >Content-Type: text/plain;
>>>     >       charset="iso-8859-1"
>>>     >Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>>>     >
>>>     >This has been one of my compromises... I get
>>> vegetarian ones... Natural =
>>>     >Factors. .....so I would also be interested if
>>> anyone knows of vegan =
>>>     >ones in Ottawa.
>>>     >
>>>     >This is an email response I got from Natural
>>> Factors April 2004:
>>>     >
>>>     >Thank-you again for your inquiry regarding
>>> Natural Factors Hi Potency =
>>>     >Multivitamin product. Natural Factors has many
>>> different multi vitamin =
>>>     >products in both tablet and capsule forms,
>>> however they  all contain =
>>>     >vitamin D3 which is sourced from Lanolin
>>> (sheep's wool) and not suitable =
>>>     >for vegans.
>>>     >
>>>     >Natural Factors is committed to providing
>>> quality products and services, =
>>>     >your feedback is important in achieving this
>>> goal.  Thank you for your =
>>>     >interest and support.
>>>     >
>>>     >
>>>     >W. Fuller
>>>     >Customer Service
>>>     >Natural Factors Nutritional Products Ltd.
>>>     >1-800-663-8900
>>>     >E-Mail:  custservice at naturalfactors.com
>>>     >
>>>     >
>>>     >
>>>     >
>>>     >
>>>     >
>>>     >  ----- Original Message -----=20
>>>     >  From: Karen G.=20
>>>     >  To: vegmisc at ottawaveg.com=20
>>>     >  Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2005 10:16 PM
>>>     >  Subject: [Vegmisc] Vegan Multi-Vitamins
>>>     >
>>>     >
>>>     >  Just wondering if anyone knows of a vegan
>>> multi-vitamin available in =
>>>     >Canada?  I've been buying them from Pangea
>>> (http://www.veganstore.com/) =
>>>     >but it gets expensive paying $US plus S&H plus
>>> duty.
>>>     >
>>>     >  Thanks!
>>>     >
>>>     >
>>>
>>>
>>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
>>>     >-----
>>>     >
>>>     >
>>>     >
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>     >  Vegmisc mailing list
>>>     >  Vegmisc at ottawaveg.com
>>>     >
>>> http://lists.ottawaveg.com/mailman/listinfo/vegmisc
>>>     >
>>>     >------=_NextPart_000_17E5_01C5E327.E1E3CE80
>>>     >Content-Type: text/html;
>>>     >       charset="iso-8859-1"
>>>     >Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>>>     >
>>>     ><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0
>>> Transitional//EN">
>>>     ><HTML><HEAD>
>>>     ><META http-equiv=3DContent-Type
>>> content=3D"text/html; =
>>>     >charset=3Diso-8859-1">
>>>     ><META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.2769 "
>>> name=3DGENERATOR>
>>>     ><STYLE></STYLE>
>>>     ></HEAD>
>>>     ><BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
>>>     ><DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow">This has been
>>> one of my compromises... =
>>>     >I get=20
>>>     >vegetarian ones... Natural Factors. .....so I
>>> would also be interested =
>>>
>> === message truncated ===>
>> _______________________________________________
>>> Vegmisc mailing list
>>> Vegmisc at ottawaveg.com
>>> http://lists.ottawaveg.com/mailman/listinfo/vegmisc
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> __________________________________
>> Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
>> http://mail.yahoo.com
>> _______________________________________________
>> Vegmisc mailing list
>> Vegmisc at ottawaveg.com
>> http://lists.ottawaveg.com/mailman/listinfo/vegmisc
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Vegmisc mailing list
> Vegmisc at ottawaveg.com
> http://lists.ottawaveg.com/mailman/listinfo/vegmisc 



From dr.dreammaker at gmail.com  Tue Nov  8 14:14:56 2005
From: dr.dreammaker at gmail.com (dr.dreammaker)
Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2005 09:14:56 -0500
Subject: [Vegmisc] Vegan Multi-Vitamins
In-Reply-To: <008501c5e421$a5a2a2c0$6b00a8c0@v>
References: <20051108015100.54353.qmail@web32813.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<008501c5e421$a5a2a2c0$6b00a8c0@v>
Message-ID: <f8e508320511080614h3d9255d2g3d785a04ed03802f@mail.gmail.com>

hello everyone,
 i've been reading the string of posts in this list thinking i wasn't going
to reply... but, in the end, thought i'd throw in my 2cts...
 i have been vegan for 5yrs now and remember back when i was first evolving
from veg to vegan and all the books i read. i think i read every single book
outlining all the different minerals and vitamins that are essential and
that we have to eat such and such different bean or yeast in order to
obtain. i have also never taken a vitamin religiously in my life.
 i guess what i'm getting at is that we have to decide what is right for us
and how comfortable we feel about what we put in our bodies on an individual
basis, ie: if we feel that we don't get enough variety in our diets, we
should take a vitamin... but i really don't think vitamins are necessary if
we eat well and aren't predisposed to any particular deficiencies.
 for those among us who tend to be iron deficient, let me say that iron is
low for various reasons including not getting enough, losing too much, or
being unable to produce red blood cells. the first one i think everyone
understands... i always recommend eating lots of raisins and green leafy
vegetables as well as whole grains and wheat germ for this... remember that
spinach is NOT a source of iron contrary to popular belief. next, if you are
a woman with heavy menses, they you might be predisposed to anemia, this
means that even if you eat meat (as in vaalea's family members) you might be
anemic. the only way this is curbed is by making sure you get lots of iron
particularly after your period or doing something to control your periods
(ie: taking BCPs continuously and only having periods a few times per year).
finally, some people can't properly absorb B12 (either b/c of diseases like
crohn's or UC or b/c of a familial problem with intrinsic factor...
something necessary for absorption of B12 in the intestinal tract)... if
this is your problem, you need to get B12 shots b/c no matter how much you
eat, you will not be able to utilize it...
 phew... that was a long rambling paragraph. anyway, long story short, if
you aren't feeling well... you feel sluggish or depressed, you might want to
get your blood count done and ask your doctor to add a B12 level to the
tests. i have a friend who became profoundly depressed after about 5yrs of
veganism and, sure enough, he was B12 deficient (a deficiency which can
cause a lot of neurological symptoms and symptoms of depression). since B12
stores in our bodies can last about 5yrs even if you don't eat any B12, it
will take about 5yrs of veganism for a deficiency to present itself. my
friend needed to get B12 shots for 6mths in order to get his stores back up
to normal. i have my blood tested at my annual exams and have never had a
problem with my blood count or with my B12 level which is proof positive
that vegans can "survive" without multi-vits.
 btw, for anyone interested, i am a doctor and would welcome health
questions... but i have to apologize if i don't respond right away as i am
very busy with my residency...
 anyway, hope that this helped some people or at least shed light on some
issues...
 xo.
 kelly.

 On 11/8/05, vaalea <v at vaalea.com> wrote:
>
> (Great post Vincent.)
>
> My science and medicine teacher in college/uni also was of the opinion
> that
> vitamins and such were useless.
> It is good to be reminded that it is very important not to overdose when
> taking supplements... and also that doctors and "professionals" are not
> gods
> with all the correct answers.... in fact (most)doctors get very little
> training in nutrition. Always good to try to teach yourself a little on
> the
> net before appointments etc. when possible... then ask questions.
>
> For vegans that cut out things like refined sugar (bone char process) out
> of
> their diet... or become Raw vegans or those who track thier nutrition and
> make sure they are getting exactly the proper nutrition.... all I can say
> is
> "Good for you." But not everyone can attain every ideal.
>
> Thanks for the information Marie-Jos?e! I will be looking further into
> some
> of those things, and keeping them in mind when I look at vitamins (they
> all
> have different doses of different things it seems like).
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Marie-Jos?e Patry" <mjpatry at yahoo.com>
> To: <vegmisc at ottawaveg.com>
> Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 8:51 PM
> Subject: Re: [Vegmisc] Vegan Multi-Vitamins
>
>
> >I had the chance to go to the World Vegetarian Fair in
> > Toronto in 2000 and went to a lecture called "What you
> > should know about vitamins". I can't remember the
> > name of the doctor or everything he was saying but I
> > never took a vitamin pill since. According to him, we
> > do more damage to our body by taking those pills. I
> > did my own research and I have to say when you start
> > reading studies that are not done by the "pill
> > industry", we should stick to broccoli and apples if
> > we want to be healthy!
> > I just did a quick search right now and copied bellow
> > some of my finding (this is from different internet
> > sites):
> >
> > "...A further reason to try to avoid looking for the
> > magic results of mega doses of vitamins is that they
> > can have toxic effects. Some people think that because
> > some is good, more is better, which is not necessarily
> > the case. This is particularly true with vitamins that
> > are fat soluble like vitamin A and will be stored up
> > in the liver. This can eventually reach toxic levels
> > and can damage the liver. Vitamin C will just be
> > secreted with the urine but it can cause diarrhea at
> > levels of 2000 mg a day, which is lower than the
> > amount many people take to stave off colds..."
> >
> > "...The notion that antioxidant vitamins could provide
> > a safe, convenient way to protect the heart from
> > disease appears to have hit a pothole. Instead of
> > protecting the heart, a new study suggests that the
> > vitamins, such as E, C, and beta carotene, could raise
> > the production by the liver of the so-called bad form
> > of cholesterol, which transports cholesterol into the
> > artery walls..."
> >
> > "...Our study results do not support the use of
> > high-dose vitamin E supplements. If people are taking
> > a multivitamin, they should make sure it contains no
> > more than a low dose of vitamin E," said study lead
> > author and internist Edgar R. Miller III, M.D., Ph.D.,
> > associate professor of medicine at The Johns Hopkins
> > University School of Medicine. "A lot of people take
> > vitamins because they believe it will benefit their
> > health in the long term and prolong life. But our
> > study shows that use of high-dose vitamin E
> > supplements certainly did not prolong life, but was
> > associated with a higher risk of death...."
> >
> > "...Vitamin E capsules, used as supplements, typically
> > contain 400 IU to 800 IU. The study results indicated
> > that these high-dose supplements were associated with
> > a higher risk of death..."
> >
> > The information I found is endless. Go have a look
> > but remember to check the source when you need
> > information about vitamins. This is a big money
> > industry, they want you to buy and they know how to
> > sale their stuff. Even if doctors or dietitians say it
> > is good for you it does not mean it is. Well, I guess
> > you all know that since most doctors and dietitians
> > believe we should drink milk and eat red meat!
> >
> > Marie
> >
> > --- vaalea <v at vaalea.com> wrote:
> >
> >> I think that BOTH veg*ns AND non-veg*ns take
> >> multi-vitamins, because even if eating healthy, we
> >> are not all professional nutritionists, and like to
> >> take vitamins to fill in any possible gaps in our
> >> diet we may be missing. I would think that MOST
> >> people who buy vitamins are not veg*ns, thus they
> >> can't accuse the veg*n diet of needing
> >> supplementing. (Why not ask them how many non-veg*ns
> >> they know take vitamins).
> >>
> >> I personally only occasionally take a vitamin,
> >> because it is a bit of a pain... and also because
> >> I'd like to think even though my diet isn't perfect,
> >> it is healthy /enough/.... however I did have low
> >> iron levels a year ago, (is it hereditary? cause
> >> meat eaters in my family had this problem too.) I
> >> haven't taken pills for it (like the doc
> >> suggested)... I do know what foods have iron in
> >> them.. I haven't yet bought iron cookware... so I
> >> figure popping a vitamin now and then isn't going to
> >> hurt... and I wouldn't be against doing it everyday
> >> if I got into the habit....
> >>
> >> If it's not going to harm us/others, then why not if
> >> we want (and it may be beneficial)?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: Kevin J. Smith
> >> To: vegmisc at ottawaveg.com
> >> Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 4:46 PM
> >> Subject: Re: [Vegmisc] Vegan Multi-Vitamins
> >>
> >>
> >> My question is, why is everyone wasting their
> >> money on vitamins? Do you not eat well? With the
> >> exception of B12 for the vegans among us, everything
> >> you need is in the food you should be eating.
> >>
> >> I am always disappointed in vegetarian/natural
> >> food stores that fill half of their store with
> >> pills. It is very poor advertising for eating
> >> "naturally." I can hear the comments from the
> >> vegetarian nay-sayers, "See, being vegetarian is not
> >> healthy ... look at all the pills you have to
> >> consume in order to get your proper nutrients."
> >>
> >> Should we not be leading by example and
> >> demonstrating how healthy it is just by eating
> >> whole, unprocessed foods?
> >>
> >> P.S.
> >> (B12 is added to most soy/rice beverages)
> >>
> >>
> >> On 11/7/05, Kevin O'Shea <kevin at oshea.ca> wrote:
> >>
> >> I buy mine vegan vitamins online - since the
> >> company is in BC, I don't pay provincial sales tax,
> >> and if your order is over $50, shipping is free.
> >>
> >>
> >> Take a look at the following link:
> >>
> >>
> >
> http://www.canadianvitaminshop.com/cgi-bin/TheVitaminShop.storefront/436f6cbc025694e227414200c149068b/Product/View/5620
> >>
> >>
> >> I don't see vitamin D3 in the on-line list of
> >> ingredients - is this something I should be wanting
> >> in a vitamin, as a vegan?
> >>
> >> Details:
> >> Sisu
> >>
> >> VEGI-MINS
> >> 90 Tablet - $21.98
> >>
> >> An all natural, vegetarian multiple vitamin and
> >> chelated mineral daily supplement containing no
> >> animal products or sources. Sisu Vegi-Mins' low
> >> ingredient potency allows each individual to design
> >> dosages specific to their own personal needs, and
> >> the coated, oblong tablet is easy to swallow. Due to
> >> our busy modern lifestyles, and the reduction of
> >> vitamin and mineral intake partly due to modern food
> >> production and handling methods, supplementation
> >> with a multiple vitamin and mineral complex is
> >> critical for optimal health and longevity.
> >>
> >>
> >> Hope this helps,
> >> Kevin
> >>
> >> >
> >> >Subject: Re: [Vegmisc] Vegan Multi-Vitamins
> >> > From: "vaalea" < v at vaalea.com>
> >> > Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2005 23:14:47 -0500
> >> > To: <vegmisc at ottawaveg.com>
> >> >
> >> >This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
> >> >
> >> >--===============0754998713==
> >> >Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
> >> >
> >> boundary="----=_NextPart_000_17E5_01C5E327.E1E3CE80"
> >> >
> >> >This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
> >> >
> >> >------=_NextPart_000_17E5_01C5E327.E1E3CE80
> >> >Content-Type: text/plain;
> >> > charset="iso-8859-1"
> >> >Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> >> >
> >> >This has been one of my compromises... I get
> >> vegetarian ones... Natural =
> >> >Factors. .....so I would also be interested if
> >> anyone knows of vegan =
> >> >ones in Ottawa.
> >> >
> >> >This is an email response I got from Natural
> >> Factors April 2004:
> >> >
> >> >Thank-you again for your inquiry regarding
> >> Natural Factors Hi Potency =
> >> >Multivitamin product. Natural Factors has many
> >> different multi vitamin =
> >> >products in both tablet and capsule forms,
> >> however they all contain =
> >> >vitamin D3 which is sourced from Lanolin
> >> (sheep's wool) and not suitable =
> >> >for vegans.
> >> >
> >> >Natural Factors is committed to providing
> >> quality products and services, =
> >> >your feedback is important in achieving this
> >> goal. Thank you for your =
> >> >interest and support.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >W. Fuller
> >> >Customer Service
> >> >Natural Factors Nutritional Products Ltd.
> >> >1-800-663-8900
> >> >E-Mail: custservice at naturalfactors.com
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > ----- Original Message -----=20
> >> > From: Karen G.=20
> >> > To: vegmisc at ottawaveg.com=20
> >> > Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2005 10:16 PM
> >> > Subject: [Vegmisc] Vegan Multi-Vitamins
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Just wondering if anyone knows of a vegan
> >> multi-vitamin available in =
> >> >Canada? I've been buying them from Pangea
> >> (http://www.veganstore.com/) =
> >> >but it gets expensive paying $US plus S&H plus
> >> duty.
> >> >
> >> > Thanks!
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
>
> >>-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> >> >-----
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> > Vegmisc mailing list
> >> > Vegmisc at ottawaveg.com
> >> >
> >> http://lists.ottawaveg.com/mailman/listinfo/vegmisc
> >> >
> >> >------=_NextPart_000_17E5_01C5E327.E1E3CE80
> >> >Content-Type: text/html;
> >> > charset="iso-8859-1"
> >> >Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> >> >
> >> ><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0
> >> Transitional//EN">
> >> ><HTML><HEAD>
> >> ><META http-equiv=3DContent-Type
> >> content=3D"text/html; =
> >> >charset=3Diso-8859-1">
> >> ><META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.2769 "
> >> name=3DGENERATOR>
> >> ><STYLE></STYLE>
> >> ></HEAD>
> >> ><BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
> >> ><DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow">This has been
> >> one of my compromises... =
> >> >I get=20
> >> >vegetarian ones... Natural Factors. .....so I
> >> would also be interested =
> >>
> > === message truncated ===>
> > _______________________________________________
> >> Vegmisc mailing list
> >> Vegmisc at ottawaveg.com
> >> http://lists.ottawaveg.com/mailman/listinfo/vegmisc
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> > Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
> > http://mail.yahoo.com
> > _______________________________________________
> > Vegmisc mailing list
> > Vegmisc at ottawaveg.com
> > http://lists.ottawaveg.com/mailman/listinfo/vegmisc
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Vegmisc mailing list
> Vegmisc at ottawaveg.com
> http://lists.ottawaveg.com/mailman/listinfo/vegmisc
>



--
you won't know what hit you.
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From karen_g38 at hotmail.com  Tue Nov  8 17:07:23 2005
From: karen_g38 at hotmail.com (Karen G.)
Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2005 12:07:23 -0500
Subject: [Vegmisc] Vegan Multi-Vitamins
In-Reply-To: <008501c5e421$a5a2a2c0$6b00a8c0@v>
Message-ID: <BAY107-F37B7F59B59A8D6D7582C78F640@phx.gbl>

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From veggie_hed at hotmail.com  Thu Nov 10 01:55:18 2005
From: veggie_hed at hotmail.com (Katie Dyson)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 01:55:18 +0000
Subject: [Vegmisc] Vegan Multi-Vitamins
In-Reply-To: <008501c5e421$a5a2a2c0$6b00a8c0@v>
Message-ID: <BAY105-F25146B60E5F528A6477D5E6660@phx.gbl>

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From v at vaalea.com  Fri Nov 11 05:58:00 2005
From: v at vaalea.com (vaalea)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 00:58:00 -0500
Subject: [Vegmisc] Vegan Multi-Vitamins
References: <BAY107-F37B7F59B59A8D6D7582C78F640@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <004501c5e684$dfe89380$6500a8c0@v>

Re B12: Doesn't Joanne use nutritional yeast in her uncheese recipes? Does she say anything about nutritional yeast as a source of B12?

Re: SISU... I'm sure I've seen that brand around... looks like a good alternative to buying online. =0)

Re Spinach: Crazy! I thought it was iron rich. There is a story about it here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spinach about a misplaced decimal point??!!... it appears however to be the richest natural source of folic acid (which makes up for its 'lack' of iron??). 

This is great conversation guys!!!! =0D It's nice not to have to wait until meetups...
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From juliusmartov at hotmail.com  Fri Nov 11 13:39:04 2005
From: juliusmartov at hotmail.com (Vincent Guihan)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 08:39:04 -0500
Subject: [Vegmisc] Vegan Multi-Vitamins
In-Reply-To: <004501c5e684$dfe89380$6500a8c0@v>
Message-ID: <BAY108-F3691A9BAB3B23BB6D8795AC0590@phx.gbl>


>Re B12: Doesn't Joanne use nutritional yeast in her uncheese recipes? Does 
>she say anything >about nutritional yeast as a source of B12?

Not to mention, although I don't want to suggest that anyone shouldn't take 
b12 deficiency very seriously, there were vegans who managed to live their 
lives before b12-fortified products and vitamins were available on the 
market.

Where they got their b12 in a sustainable way is a good question -- possibly 
unwashed vegetables and fermented foods (both of which might have been 
sources for the bacteria that provides b12), neither of which would be good 
sources in a contemporary diet (since we all wash our vegetables carefully 
and the fermentation of most foods is a much more sterile process).

Vegans /should/ supplement since it's easy to do so.  Most soymilks, 
nutritional yeast, soy meat analogues, Total breakfast cereal, etc., are all 
fortified with b12.  Unless someone has problems with b12 absorption (which 
usually has to be addressed with b12 injections), there's no real need to 
take a vitamin just for b12.




From juliusmartov at hotmail.com  Fri Nov 11 13:52:28 2005
From: juliusmartov at hotmail.com (Vincent Guihan)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 08:52:28 -0500
Subject: [Vegmisc] Vegan Multi-Vitamins
In-Reply-To: <004501c5e684$dfe89380$6500a8c0@v>
Message-ID: <BAY108-F26CC82C408F8D552D50B77C0590@phx.gbl>


>Re Spinach: Crazy! I thought it was iron rich.

Most dark green vegetables are /relatively/ iron rich, including spinach to 
a degree, but that means eating usually 2-3 servings of dark green 
vegetables daily.  Some studies have also suggested that vegans are better 
able to absorb available iron than regular folks, but better not to take 
chances.

There are several issues with iron absorption from vegetables sources, 
though.  The soil has to be rich enough to provide the nutrients in the 
first place, and we all have to keep in mind that vegetable iron is non-heme 
iron (harder to absorb). It helps to cook the greens (since this usually 
makes the iron more available to absorb), and it helps to consume the greens 
with a vitamin C-rich food (also facilitating absorption). There are also 
plenty of foods that can interfere with iron absorption.

For those that don't like dark greens, other good sources of iron include 
figs (and many other dried fruits) and molasses, foods fortified with iron, 
and so on.  A tablespoon of cooking molasses provides roughly 15% of the DRA 
of iron and it's yummy on toast.

V




From karen_g38 at hotmail.com  Fri Nov 11 18:45:47 2005
From: karen_g38 at hotmail.com (Karen G.)
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 13:45:47 -0500
Subject: [Vegmisc] Vegan Multi-Vitamins
In-Reply-To: <004501c5e684$dfe89380$6500a8c0@v>
Message-ID: <BAY107-F116A59DD4E0AF47E2C67F78F590@phx.gbl>

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From v at vaalea.com  Sat Nov 26 05:57:48 2005
From: v at vaalea.com (vaalea)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 00:57:48 -0500
Subject: [Vegmisc] City Greening (welcome back)
Message-ID: <004e01c5f24e$55a3dba0$6500a8c0@v>

Well, no one has been posting lately but that's good cause the mailing list archive was down, and it was just restored today. Some people have been emailing ME events, and I just want to remind everyone to go ahead and post them on this mailing list.


The other day Dose and Metro talking about the greening of cities by planting on top of downtown buildings... Dose refered back to Babylon, the hanging gardens as the original city roof greening. Well, sure it's nice that it would be environmentally friendly.... ;0) ..... but imagine how much more beautiful the cities would look! 
http://www.metronews.ca/uploadedFiles/Metro_Ottawa_1123_2005.pdf
http://www.dose.ca/ottawa/story.html?id=0a665099-1ec9-459c-9e84-6439794d8c29
http://toronto.dose.ca/webx/Uploads/ottawa/november2005/OTT1123.pdf
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From edandrea at magma.ca  Sun Nov 27 14:36:31 2005
From: edandrea at magma.ca (Edelweiss D'Andrea)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 09:36:31 -0500
Subject: [Vegmisc] Join the Dec. 3 Global March for the Climate
Message-ID: <PPEKLOAICIHMNBDNCLMNGEFFCEAA.edandrea@magma.ca>

Join the "Global March for the Climate" in Montreal, the site of the United
Nations Climate Change Conference. The nations of the world will be coming
to talk about how to prevent dangerous climate change. But we need more than
talk, and Canada must lead the way.

Human communities and ecosystems around the world are already suffering from
the impacts of climate change. Scientists agree that these impacts will
become catastrophic unless we make deep cuts in greenhouse gases emissions
from the burning of oil, coal and gas. Climate change threatens our water
supplies and food production; increases the severity of droughts, floods and
storms; dooms many species and whole ecosystems to extinction; and raises
sea levels to threaten coastal and island communities.

Thousands of people, in communities all over the globe, will be marching
that day in support of a cooler earth to live on. Join us and make your
voice heard! The bigger the turnout, the bigger the impact will be.

Take a bus from Ottawa to the march:
Date: December 3, 2005
Time: Meet at 9:30 a.m., and the bus leaves at 10:00 a.m. The bus leaves
Montreal at 4:00 p.m. and we should be back for 6:00 p.m.
Where: St. Laurent Shopping Centre (near highway 417, St. Laurent exit) in
front of Sears. Meet at the north-west corner of the parking lot, at
Ogilvie/St. Laurent Blvd.
Cost: $16.00 per seat
To reserve: Contact dougthorne at sympatico.ca. If you book a seat, you are
responsible for your ticket so only firm commitments please.






For more information about global warming, please see the article below.
Scientific types will be interested to know that it is based on an article
called "Airing Out Older Glacial Cycles," which was published in this
month's journal, Science (November 2005: Vol. 310. no. 5752, p. 1241).

The greenhouse gases in Earth's atmosphere have soared over the last two
centuries to levels not seen in more than 650,000 years, scientists report.

"There is now no question this is due to human influence," says geoscientist
Ed Brook of Oregon State University, author of a report published today in
the journal Science that helps set the stage for next week's UN climate
conference in Montreal.

The amount of carbon dioxide in the air has "shot up" in the last 200 years,
he says, noting there is little question much of the excess carbon
originated with fossil fuels burned in factories, homes and vehicles since
the start of the Industrial Revolution.

Tiny gas bubbles trapped in Antarctic ice have enabled researchers to look
back 650,000 years, adding 210,000 years to the climate record. They found
carbon dioxide in the atmosphere is 27-per-cent higher than its highest
recorded level during this period, says Thomas Stocker of the Physics
Institute of the University of Bern, who led the international team that
analysed the gas bubbles.

Not only is the magnitude of the change dramatic, so is the speed at which
the levels rose over the last two centuries, says Mr. Brook, co-chair of the
International Partnerships in Ice Core Science, and author of a commentary
on the new results.

The researchers liken ice cores to a time machine, since the bubbles they
contain preserve tiny samples of the atmosphere dating back to when the ice
formed.

"The ice core shows what the atmosphere was like quite directly," says Mr.
Brook. "We are not inferring through three layers of indirect data.

"The record from the ice core shows that the current level of CO2 which is
about 365 ppm (parts per million) was never, ever reached during that whole
period," he said in a telephone interview. "It rarely gets above 280 ppm at
any time, warm or cold, except during the last 200 years."

There is wide consensus among climate scientists that carbon dioxide and
methane gas, which is also rising, will increase global temperatures in
coming decades because they trap heat in the atmosphere. There is also
mounting evidence the warming is already under way -- glaciers are shrinking
in many regions of the world, threatening water supplies for millions of
people and Arctic permafrost is melting, while cold-sensitive pests, such as
the pine beetles attacking Western Canada's forest, are expanding their
range.

The sea has also begun to climb, according to another study in Science today
that reports the rate of sea level rise has doubled to two millimetres a
year in the last 150 years. The increase many be minuscule, but the
researchers consider it another ominous sign global warming is accelerating.


The ice-core scientists say their new data have enabled them to confirm
there was a steady relationship between the Antarctic climate and carbon
dioxide and methane during the last four ice ages and the warm periods
between them. They say it should also help them better understand climate
change and how it will behave in future.

"It would have been nice to have had a big comet come along" and raise
atmospheric carbon dioxide levels to 360 ppm at some point in the last
650,000 years, says Mr. Brook. "Then we'd have had a record in the ice core
and could have seen how warm it got.

"But we don't have that and we're now doing the experiment," he says.

He, like many climate scientists, believes society would be smart to make
drastic cuts in carbon emissions through the use of cleaner energy sources
and other means.

The UN Climate Change Conference, which starts in Montreal next week, is
expected to see 10,000 delegates gather to discuss options for reducing
emissions.





From v at vaalea.com  Sun Nov 27 16:12:23 2005
From: v at vaalea.com (vaalea)
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 11:12:23 -0500
Subject: [Vegmisc] Join the Dec. 3 Global March for the Climate
References: <PPEKLOAICIHMNBDNCLMNGEFFCEAA.edandrea@magma.ca>
Message-ID: <002101c5f36d$5bca3310$6500a8c0@v>

Which is THIS SATURDAY... (before checking the date I was assuming a 
work-weekday.. as that is usually when things happen)

I've seen articles about that ice drill on the front page of Google News for 
a few days now.
http://news.google.ca/news?ned=ca&ie=UTF-8&ncl=http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2005-11/25/content_3834995.htm&hl=en

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Edelweiss D'Andrea" <edandrea at magma.ca>
To: <vegmisc at ottawaveg.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2005 9:36 AM
Subject: [Vegmisc] Join the Dec. 3 Global March for the Climate


> Join the "Global March for the Climate" in Montreal, the site of the 
> United
> Nations Climate Change Conference. The nations of the world will be coming
> to talk about how to prevent dangerous climate change. But we need more 
> than
> talk, and Canada must lead the way.
>
> Human communities and ecosystems around the world are already suffering 
> from
> the impacts of climate change. Scientists agree that these impacts will
> become catastrophic unless we make deep cuts in greenhouse gases emissions
> from the burning of oil, coal and gas. Climate change threatens our water
> supplies and food production; increases the severity of droughts, floods 
> and
> storms; dooms many species and whole ecosystems to extinction; and raises
> sea levels to threaten coastal and island communities.
>
> Thousands of people, in communities all over the globe, will be marching
> that day in support of a cooler earth to live on. Join us and make your
> voice heard! The bigger the turnout, the bigger the impact will be.
>
> Take a bus from Ottawa to the march:
> Date: December 3, 2005
> Time: Meet at 9:30 a.m., and the bus leaves at 10:00 a.m. The bus leaves
> Montreal at 4:00 p.m. and we should be back for 6:00 p.m.
> Where: St. Laurent Shopping Centre (near highway 417, St. Laurent exit) in
> front of Sears. Meet at the north-west corner of the parking lot, at
> Ogilvie/St. Laurent Blvd.
> Cost: $16.00 per seat
> To reserve: Contact dougthorne at sympatico.ca. If you book a seat, you are
> responsible for your ticket so only firm commitments please.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> For more information about global warming, please see the article below.
> Scientific types will be interested to know that it is based on an article
> called "Airing Out Older Glacial Cycles," which was published in this
> month's journal, Science (November 2005: Vol. 310. no. 5752, p. 1241).
>
> The greenhouse gases in Earth's atmosphere have soared over the last two
> centuries to levels not seen in more than 650,000 years, scientists 
> report.
>
> "There is now no question this is due to human influence," says 
> geoscientist
> Ed Brook of Oregon State University, author of a report published today in
> the journal Science that helps set the stage for next week's UN climate
> conference in Montreal.
>
> The amount of carbon dioxide in the air has "shot up" in the last 200 
> years,
> he says, noting there is little question much of the excess carbon
> originated with fossil fuels burned in factories, homes and vehicles since
> the start of the Industrial Revolution.
>
> Tiny gas bubbles trapped in Antarctic ice have enabled researchers to look
> back 650,000 years, adding 210,000 years to the climate record. They found
> carbon dioxide in the atmosphere is 27-per-cent higher than its highest
> recorded level during this period, says Thomas Stocker of the Physics
> Institute of the University of Bern, who led the international team that
> analysed the gas bubbles.
>
> Not only is the magnitude of the change dramatic, so is the speed at which
> the levels rose over the last two centuries, says Mr. Brook, co-chair of 
> the
> International Partnerships in Ice Core Science, and author of a commentary
> on the new results.
>
> The researchers liken ice cores to a time machine, since the bubbles they
> contain preserve tiny samples of the atmosphere dating back to when the 
> ice
> formed.
>
> "The ice core shows what the atmosphere was like quite directly," says Mr.
> Brook. "We are not inferring through three layers of indirect data.
>
> "The record from the ice core shows that the current level of CO2 which is
> about 365 ppm (parts per million) was never, ever reached during that 
> whole
> period," he said in a telephone interview. "It rarely gets above 280 ppm 
> at
> any time, warm or cold, except during the last 200 years."
>
> There is wide consensus among climate scientists that carbon dioxide and
> methane gas, which is also rising, will increase global temperatures in
> coming decades because they trap heat in the atmosphere. There is also
> mounting evidence the warming is already under way -- glaciers are 
> shrinking
> in many regions of the world, threatening water supplies for millions of
> people and Arctic permafrost is melting, while cold-sensitive pests, such 
> as
> the pine beetles attacking Western Canada's forest, are expanding their
> range.
>
> The sea has also begun to climb, according to another study in Science 
> today
> that reports the rate of sea level rise has doubled to two millimetres a
> year in the last 150 years. The increase many be minuscule, but the
> researchers consider it another ominous sign global warming is 
> accelerating.
>
>
> The ice-core scientists say their new data have enabled them to confirm
> there was a steady relationship between the Antarctic climate and carbon
> dioxide and methane during the last four ice ages and the warm periods
> between them. They say it should also help them better understand climate
> change and how it will behave in future.
>
> "It would have been nice to have had a big comet come along" and raise
> atmospheric carbon dioxide levels to 360 ppm at some point in the last
> 650,000 years, says Mr. Brook. "Then we'd have had a record in the ice 
> core
> and could have seen how warm it got.
>
> "But we don't have that and we're now doing the experiment," he says.
>
> He, like many climate scientists, believes society would be smart to make
> drastic cuts in carbon emissions through the use of cleaner energy sources
> and other means.
>
> The UN Climate Change Conference, which starts in Montreal next week, is
> expected to see 10,000 delegates gather to discuss options for reducing
> emissions.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> Vegmisc at ottawaveg.com
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>