This has been >> one of my compromises... = >> >I get=20 >> >vegetarian ones... Natural Factors. .....so I >> would also be interested = >> > === message truncated ===> > _______________________________________________ >> Vegmisc mailing list >> Vegmisc at ottawaveg.com >> http://lists.ottawaveg.com/mailman/listinfo/vegmisc >> > > > > > __________________________________ > Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 > http://mail.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > Vegmisc mailing list > Vegmisc at ottawaveg.com > http://lists.ottawaveg.com/mailman/listinfo/vegmisc > From v at vaalea.com Tue Nov 8 05:08:31 2005 From: v at vaalea.com (vaalea) Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2005 00:08:31 -0500 Subject: [Vegmisc] Loblaws sale and vitamin links. References: <20051108015100.54353.qmail@web32813.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <008501c5e421$a5a2a2c0$6b00a8c0@v> Message-ID: <008801c5e422$76842580$6b00a8c0@v> I forgot to add these links I randomly googled about vitamins (pros, cons, overdose): http://www.diynetwork.com/diy/lh_general_info/article/0,2041,DIY_14040_2275294,00.html http://www.balancemindbodysoul.com/foodfacts-2000-02.html Loblaws has their Yves burgers, and chikn burgers on sale for 1.99 for their 2-patty package. Also, the Yves beef tender strips (??) are on sale for 3.49/box. Good for fajitas. From mbarrett at connect.carleton.ca Tue Nov 8 18:42:44 2005 From: mbarrett at connect.carleton.ca (Meredith Barrett) Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2005 13:42:44 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Vegmisc] Vegan Multi-Vitamins Message-ID: <1732508.1131475364431.JavaMail.mbarrett@connect.carleton.ca> no you're right it doesn't kill you, it just exhausts you so you're useless, if your iron gets low enough. vaalea wrote: >Yeah, the doc wrote that name down and told me to get it.. but I didn't. =0| > >The one thing about iron is low iron doesn't KILL you, but you can overdose >and die on it.... or at least that is what I seem to remember reading last >yearish... I could be wrong. > >I had "good intentions" of boosting it naturally that I didn't want to >bother with pills... but yeah... I should at least try I suppose. > > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Meredith Barrett" >To: >Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 7:48 PM >Subject: Re: [Vegmisc] Vegan Multi-Vitamins > > >>i have had problems with extremely low iron counts and take iron >> supplements. if you are interested in taking iron (and i'd recommend it >> if you are in fact low, having low iron is rather debilitating if it >> continues!) then you should ask about the iron they keep behind the >> counter. it's called ferrous something or rather. these pills have more >> iron in them than what you find on the shelves which is a minute amount >> and largely ineffective if you're looking to boost your iron count >> overall and permanently. don't waste your money on the stuff on the >> shelves, what is behind the counter doesn't need a prescription, it's >> just kept there with the nicorette patch and stuff. just a suggestion! >> meredith >> >> >> vaalea wrote: >> >> >>>I think that BOTH veg*ns AND non-veg*ns take multi-vitamins, because >> even if eating healthy, we are not all professional nutritionists, and >> like to take vitamins to fill in any possible gaps in our diet we may >> be missing. I would think that MOST people who buy vitamins are not >> veg*ns, thus they can't accuse the veg*n diet of needing supplementing. >> (Why not ask them how many non-veg*ns they know take vitamins). >>> >>>I personally only occasionally take a vitamin, because it is a bit of a >> pain... and also because I'd like to think even though my diet isn't >> perfect, it is healthy /enough/.... however I did have low iron levels >> a year ago, (is it hereditary? cause meat eaters in my family had this >> problem too.) I haven't taken pills for it (like the doc suggested)... >> I do know what foods have iron in them.. I haven't yet bought iron >> cookware... so I figure popping a vitamin now and then isn't going to >> hurt... and I wouldn't be against doing it everyday if I got into the >> habit.... >>> >>>If it's not going to harm us/others, then why not if we want (and it >> may be beneficial)? >>> >>> >>> >>>----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Kevin J. Smith >>> To: vegmisc at ottawaveg.com >>> Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 4:46 PM >>> Subject: Re: [Vegmisc] Vegan Multi-Vitamins >>> >>> >>> My question is, why is everyone wasting their money on vitamins? Do >> you not eat well? With the exception of B12 for the vegans among us, >> everything you need is in the food you should be eating. >>> >>> I am always disappointed in vegetarian/natural food stores that fill >> half of their store with pills. It is very poor advertising for eating >> "naturally." I can hear the comments from the vegetarian nay-sayers, >> "See, being vegetarian is not healthy ... look at all the pills you >> have to consume in order to get your proper nutrients." >>> >>> Should we not be leading by example and demonstrating how healthy it >> is just by eating whole, unprocessed foods? >>> >>> P.S. >>> (B12 is added to most soy/rice beverages) >>> >>> >>> On 11/7/05, Kevin O'Shea wrote: >>> >>> I buy mine vegan vitamins online - since the company is in BC, I >> don't pay provincial sales tax, and if your order is over $50, shipping >> is free. >>> >>> >>> Take a look at the following link: >>> >> http://www.canadianvitaminshop.com/cgi-bin/TheVitaminShop.storefront/436f6cbc025694e227414200c149068b/Product/View/5620 >>> >>> I don't see vitamin D3 in the on-line list of ingredients - is this >> something I should be wanting in a vitamin, as a vegan? >>> >>> Details: >>> Sisu >>> >>> VEGI-MINS >>> 90 Tablet - $21.98 >>> >>> An all natural, vegetarian multiple vitamin and chelated mineral >> daily supplement containing no animal products or sources. Sisu >> Vegi-Mins' low ingredient potency allows each individual to design >> dosages specific to their own personal needs, and the coated, oblong >> tablet is easy to swallow. Due to our busy modern lifestyles, and the >> reduction of vitamin and mineral intake partly due to modern food >> production and handling methods, supplementation with a multiple >> vitamin and mineral complex is critical for optimal health and >> longevity. >>> >>> >>> Hope this helps, >>> Kevin >>> >>> > >>> >Subject: Re: [Vegmisc] Vegan Multi-Vitamins >>> > From: "vaalea" < v at vaalea.com> >>> > Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2005 23:14:47 -0500 >>> > To: >>> > >>> >This is a multi-part message in MIME format. >>> > >>> >--===============0754998713== >>> >Content-Type: multipart/alternative; >>> > boundary="----=_NextPart_000_17E5_01C5E327.E1E3CE80" >>> > >>> >This is a multi-part message in MIME format. >>> > >>> >------=_NextPart_000_17E5_01C5E327.E1E3CE80 >>> >Content-Type: text/plain; >>> > charset="iso-8859-1" >>> >Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >>> > >>> >This has been one of my compromises... I get vegetarian ones... >> Natural = >>> >Factors. .....so I would also be interested if anyone knows of >> vegan = >>> >ones in Ottawa. >>> > >>> >This is an email response I got from Natural Factors April 2004: >>> > >>> >Thank-you again for your inquiry regarding Natural Factors Hi >> Potency = >>> >Multivitamin product. Natural Factors has many different multi >> vitamin = >>> >products in both tablet and capsule forms, however they all >> contain = >>> >vitamin D3 which is sourced from Lanolin (sheep's wool) and not >> suitable = >>> >for vegans. >>> > >>> >Natural Factors is committed to providing quality products and >> services, = >>> >your feedback is important in achieving this goal. Thank you for >> your = >>> >interest and support. >>> > >>> > >>> >W. Fuller >>> >Customer Service >>> >Natural Factors Nutritional Products Ltd. >>> >1-800-663-8900 >>> >E-Mail: custservice at naturalfactors.com >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > ----- Original Message -----=20 >>> > From: Karen G.=20 >>> > To: vegmisc at ottawaveg.com=20 >>> > Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2005 10:16 PM >>> > Subject: [Vegmisc] Vegan Multi-Vitamins >>> > >>> > >>> > Just wondering if anyone knows of a vegan multi-vitamin >> available in = >>> >Canada? I've been buying them from Pangea >> (http://www.veganstore.com/) = >>> >but it gets expensive paying $US plus S&H plus duty. >>> > >>> > Thanks! >>> > >>> > >>> >>>------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> -= >>> >----- >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > Vegmisc mailing list >>> > Vegmisc at ottawaveg.com >>> > http://lists.ottawaveg.com/mailman/listinfo/vegmisc >>> > >>> >------=_NextPart_000_17E5_01C5E327.E1E3CE80 >>> >Content-Type: text/html; >>> > charset="iso-8859-1" >>> >Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> >>> >charset=3Diso-8859-1"> >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> >

This has been one of my >> compromises... = >>> >I get=20 >>> >vegetarian ones... Natural Factors. .....so I would also be >> interested = >>> >if anyone=20 >>> >knows of vegan ones in Ottawa.

>>> >

This is an email response I got >> from = >>> >Natural=20 >>> >Factors April 2004:

>>> >

Thank-you again for your inquiry regarding Natural Factors Hi >> = >>> >Potency=20 >>> >Multivitamin product. Natural Factors has many different multi >> vitamin = >>> >products=20 >>> >in both tablet and capsule forms, however they all contain >> vitamin = >>> >D3=20 >>> >which is sourced from Lanolin (sheep's wool) and not suitable >> for=20 >>> >vegans.

Natural Factors is committed to providing quality = >>> >products and=20 >>> >services, your feedback is important in achieving this goal. >> Thank = >>> >you for=20 >>> >your interest and support.

W. Fuller
Customer = >>> >Service
Natural=20 >>> >Factors Nutritional Products >> Ltd.
1-800-663-8900
E-Mail: >> >href=3D"">custservice at naturalfactors.com

>>> >

>>> >>> >style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = >>> >BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> >>> >

----- Original Message ----- >>

>>> > >> > style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = >>> >black">From:=20 >>> > >> >href=3D"mailto:karen_g38 at hotmail.com">Karen=20 >>> > G.

This has been >>> one of my compromises... = >>> >I get=20 >>> >vegetarian ones... Natural Factors. .....so I >>> would also be interested = >>> >> === message truncated ===> >> _______________________________________________ >>> Vegmisc mailing list >>> Vegmisc at ottawaveg.com >>> http://lists.ottawaveg.com/mailman/listinfo/vegmisc >>> >> >> >> >> >> __________________________________ >> Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 >> http://mail.yahoo.com >> _______________________________________________ >> Vegmisc mailing list >> Vegmisc at ottawaveg.com >> http://lists.ottawaveg.com/mailman/listinfo/vegmisc >> > > _______________________________________________ > Vegmisc mailing list > Vegmisc at ottawaveg.com > http://lists.ottawaveg.com/mailman/listinfo/vegmisc From dr.dreammaker at gmail.com Tue Nov 8 14:14:56 2005 From: dr.dreammaker at gmail.com (dr.dreammaker) Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2005 09:14:56 -0500 Subject: [Vegmisc] Vegan Multi-Vitamins In-Reply-To: <008501c5e421$a5a2a2c0$6b00a8c0@v> References: <20051108015100.54353.qmail@web32813.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <008501c5e421$a5a2a2c0$6b00a8c0@v> Message-ID: hello everyone, i've been reading the string of posts in this list thinking i wasn't going to reply... but, in the end, thought i'd throw in my 2cts... i have been vegan for 5yrs now and remember back when i was first evolving from veg to vegan and all the books i read. i think i read every single book outlining all the different minerals and vitamins that are essential and that we have to eat such and such different bean or yeast in order to obtain. i have also never taken a vitamin religiously in my life. i guess what i'm getting at is that we have to decide what is right for us and how comfortable we feel about what we put in our bodies on an individual basis, ie: if we feel that we don't get enough variety in our diets, we should take a vitamin... but i really don't think vitamins are necessary if we eat well and aren't predisposed to any particular deficiencies. for those among us who tend to be iron deficient, let me say that iron is low for various reasons including not getting enough, losing too much, or being unable to produce red blood cells. the first one i think everyone understands... i always recommend eating lots of raisins and green leafy vegetables as well as whole grains and wheat germ for this... remember that spinach is NOT a source of iron contrary to popular belief. next, if you are a woman with heavy menses, they you might be predisposed to anemia, this means that even if you eat meat (as in vaalea's family members) you might be anemic. the only way this is curbed is by making sure you get lots of iron particularly after your period or doing something to control your periods (ie: taking BCPs continuously and only having periods a few times per year). finally, some people can't properly absorb B12 (either b/c of diseases like crohn's or UC or b/c of a familial problem with intrinsic factor... something necessary for absorption of B12 in the intestinal tract)... if this is your problem, you need to get B12 shots b/c no matter how much you eat, you will not be able to utilize it... phew... that was a long rambling paragraph. anyway, long story short, if you aren't feeling well... you feel sluggish or depressed, you might want to get your blood count done and ask your doctor to add a B12 level to the tests. i have a friend who became profoundly depressed after about 5yrs of veganism and, sure enough, he was B12 deficient (a deficiency which can cause a lot of neurological symptoms and symptoms of depression). since B12 stores in our bodies can last about 5yrs even if you don't eat any B12, it will take about 5yrs of veganism for a deficiency to present itself. my friend needed to get B12 shots for 6mths in order to get his stores back up to normal. i have my blood tested at my annual exams and have never had a problem with my blood count or with my B12 level which is proof positive that vegans can "survive" without multi-vits. btw, for anyone interested, i am a doctor and would welcome health questions... but i have to apologize if i don't respond right away as i am very busy with my residency... anyway, hope that this helped some people or at least shed light on some issues... xo. kelly. On 11/8/05, vaalea wrote: > > (Great post Vincent.) > > My science and medicine teacher in college/uni also was of the opinion > that > vitamins and such were useless. > It is good to be reminded that it is very important not to overdose when > taking supplements... and also that doctors and "professionals" are not > gods > with all the correct answers.... in fact (most)doctors get very little > training in nutrition. Always good to try to teach yourself a little on > the > net before appointments etc. when possible... then ask questions. > > For vegans that cut out things like refined sugar (bone char process) out > of > their diet... or become Raw vegans or those who track thier nutrition and > make sure they are getting exactly the proper nutrition.... all I can say > is > "Good for you." But not everyone can attain every ideal. > > Thanks for the information Marie-Jos?e! I will be looking further into > some > of those things, and keeping them in mind when I look at vitamins (they > all > have different doses of different things it seems like). > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Marie-Jos?e Patry" > To: > Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 8:51 PM > Subject: Re: [Vegmisc] Vegan Multi-Vitamins > > > >I had the chance to go to the World Vegetarian Fair in > > Toronto in 2000 and went to a lecture called "What you > > should know about vitamins". I can't remember the > > name of the doctor or everything he was saying but I > > never took a vitamin pill since. According to him, we > > do more damage to our body by taking those pills. I > > did my own research and I have to say when you start > > reading studies that are not done by the "pill > > industry", we should stick to broccoli and apples if > > we want to be healthy! > > I just did a quick search right now and copied bellow > > some of my finding (this is from different internet > > sites): > > > > "...A further reason to try to avoid looking for the > > magic results of mega doses of vitamins is that they > > can have toxic effects. Some people think that because > > some is good, more is better, which is not necessarily > > the case. This is particularly true with vitamins that > > are fat soluble like vitamin A and will be stored up > > in the liver. This can eventually reach toxic levels > > and can damage the liver. Vitamin C will just be > > secreted with the urine but it can cause diarrhea at > > levels of 2000 mg a day, which is lower than the > > amount many people take to stave off colds..." > > > > "...The notion that antioxidant vitamins could provide > > a safe, convenient way to protect the heart from > > disease appears to have hit a pothole. Instead of > > protecting the heart, a new study suggests that the > > vitamins, such as E, C, and beta carotene, could raise > > the production by the liver of the so-called bad form > > of cholesterol, which transports cholesterol into the > > artery walls..." > > > > "...Our study results do not support the use of > > high-dose vitamin E supplements. If people are taking > > a multivitamin, they should make sure it contains no > > more than a low dose of vitamin E," said study lead > > author and internist Edgar R. Miller III, M.D., Ph.D., > > associate professor of medicine at The Johns Hopkins > > University School of Medicine. "A lot of people take > > vitamins because they believe it will benefit their > > health in the long term and prolong life. But our > > study shows that use of high-dose vitamin E > > supplements certainly did not prolong life, but was > > associated with a higher risk of death...." > > > > "...Vitamin E capsules, used as supplements, typically > > contain 400 IU to 800 IU. The study results indicated > > that these high-dose supplements were associated with > > a higher risk of death..." > > > > The information I found is endless. Go have a look > > but remember to check the source when you need > > information about vitamins. This is a big money > > industry, they want you to buy and they know how to > > sale their stuff. Even if doctors or dietitians say it > > is good for you it does not mean it is. Well, I guess > > you all know that since most doctors and dietitians > > believe we should drink milk and eat red meat! > > > > Marie > > > > --- vaalea wrote: > > > >> I think that BOTH veg*ns AND non-veg*ns take > >> multi-vitamins, because even if eating healthy, we > >> are not all professional nutritionists, and like to > >> take vitamins to fill in any possible gaps in our > >> diet we may be missing. I would think that MOST > >> people who buy vitamins are not veg*ns, thus they > >> can't accuse the veg*n diet of needing > >> supplementing. (Why not ask them how many non-veg*ns > >> they know take vitamins). > >> > >> I personally only occasionally take a vitamin, > >> because it is a bit of a pain... and also because > >> I'd like to think even though my diet isn't perfect, > >> it is healthy /enough/.... however I did have low > >> iron levels a year ago, (is it hereditary? cause > >> meat eaters in my family had this problem too.) I > >> haven't taken pills for it (like the doc > >> suggested)... I do know what foods have iron in > >> them.. I haven't yet bought iron cookware... so I > >> figure popping a vitamin now and then isn't going to > >> hurt... and I wouldn't be against doing it everyday > >> if I got into the habit.... > >> > >> If it's not going to harm us/others, then why not if > >> we want (and it may be beneficial)? > >> > >> > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: Kevin J. Smith > >> To: vegmisc at ottawaveg.com > >> Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 4:46 PM > >> Subject: Re: [Vegmisc] Vegan Multi-Vitamins > >> > >> > >> My question is, why is everyone wasting their > >> money on vitamins? Do you not eat well? With the > >> exception of B12 for the vegans among us, everything > >> you need is in the food you should be eating. > >> > >> I am always disappointed in vegetarian/natural > >> food stores that fill half of their store with > >> pills. It is very poor advertising for eating > >> "naturally." I can hear the comments from the > >> vegetarian nay-sayers, "See, being vegetarian is not > >> healthy ... look at all the pills you have to > >> consume in order to get your proper nutrients." > >> > >> Should we not be leading by example and > >> demonstrating how healthy it is just by eating > >> whole, unprocessed foods? > >> > >> P.S. > >> (B12 is added to most soy/rice beverages) > >> > >> > >> On 11/7/05, Kevin O'Shea